controling the game part 2

[gordon30307]

I strongly disagree with hustling toward the coach to explain a call. This action makes you appear to be the agressor in this situation. Unless the coach has a broken leg (and even then I might make him hobble over to talk to me) he has to come to me to talk. This enables me to figure out what he wants and gives me time to formulate a response.

I also want to meet away from my normal position where I would work the game. That way when I want to terminate the discussion I can walk back to my position. If he follows he appears to be the aggressor and I can dump him if necessary. Remeber perception is reality.

[jicecone]

Originally posted by gordon30307
I strongly disagree with hustling toward the coach to explain a call. This action makes you appear to be the agressor in this situation. Unless the coach has a broken leg (and even then I might make him hobble over to talk to me) he has to come to me to talk. This enables me to figure out what he wants and gives me time to formulate a response.

I also want to meet away from my normal position where I would work the game. That way when I want to terminate the discussion I can walk back to my position. If he follows he appears to be the aggressor and I can dump him if necessary. Remeber perception is reality.

Ok gordon, lets see here. Your either trying to jump on the band wagon of being critical of the kids articles OOORRRR you really can't decide where to stand when discussing things with a coach. Which one is it?

Don't go to the coach, but don't stay in your position. How about meeting half way?????

[gordon30307]

Why meet him halfway? He wants to talk to me he can come to me. My point is you appear to be the agressor if you run up to the coach. Incidently there have been occaisions where I have met coaches halfway. I'm not picking on guys that do "kids games". Personaly I do a wide variety of age groups from JUCO, High School Varsity, down to "Park District 13 and 14's" I enjoy working at all of these levels.

[WindyCityBlue]

Both of you guys are bring up good points.

I teach a clinic on tolerance and game management each year called "UnderArmour should be made of Kevlar" and we cover this extensively.

Here it is (feel free to copy from it and improve it, since I have borrowed many ideas from partners and literature over the years and very few ideas are original anymore):

1. Ejections are just another part of the game
A. Is the ejection is necessary?
1. If you are too quick, youÂ’ll get the reputation of a hothead and no one will want you
2. If you are too slow, youÂ’ll lose control of the game and the respect of the coach / players
B. Automatic - "Dump 'em, Don't think about it."
1. Intentional, physical contact with an umpire
2. Personal, derogatory remark directed at an umpire/player/coach
3. Attempted physical assault on an umpire or opposing player/coach
C. Discretionary Ejections
1. Acts designed to embarrass an umpire or player
2. Extended or unreasonable delays of the game by player or coach
D. Know the LeagueÂ’s or AssociationÂ’s Ejection Policies
1. Profanity / Malicious Contact / Equipment
2. Additional rules may apply - a copy of these should be provided or made readily available

You can and will maintain control by trying to keep the individual in the game (restricted to dugout in Fed).

2. Okay, great...now how do I do it?
A. Remain Calm and Focused
1. Loss of temper = loss of control - in order to resolve the problem, you must be in control
B. Speak conversationally to one coach (ask others to leave or have partner(s) assist)
1. A raised voice gains attention, but prompts others to yell and become hostile
2. Lower your voice - this reinforces control and encourages other to lower his / her voice
C. Listen & Wait
1. Allow other to state their case and respond only when he/she is finished
D. Insure Understanding
1. Ask him /her to repeat the problem only if you are unsure what he /she is upset about
2. Repeat the complaint ("Coach, are yu saying that the ball beat him?")
E. Determine proper course of action
1. Explain your intentions and state rationale ("Coach, I had a pretty good look and from angle, there's no doubt, he got in before the ball.")
F. Resume the game quickly and safely

3. Techniques - Make it happen!
A. 20 second rule (donÂ’t discuss plays from last inning...last game, etc.)
B. Ask...DonÂ’t Answer Questions
1. Person asking questions controls conversation...the person answering questions is on defensive ("Do you know how fast you were going?" - think like a cop)
C. Stall by conferring with your partner
1. This shows that you are sincere and provides an opportunity to alter position and get the call right!
2. Reinforce your decision by presenting it face to face with the coach - speak to only one coach!

If none of this works to resolve the situation or keep the game going...see 1.C.1

Please note: I never mentioned fans. The coach, AD and site manager is in charge of them. I hope that this helps.

[GarthB]

As a nonsubscriber reading a "netazine" at a friend's after dinner, I am not allowed an opinion of the content of this article, nor, unfortunately, of the level of writing, nor the editor's misses.

Carry on.

[Edited by GarthB on Aug 16th, 2004 at 01:20 PM]

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by GarthB
As a nonsubscriber reading a "netazine" at friend's after dinner, I am not allowed an opinion of the content of this article, nor, unfortunately, of the level of writing, nor the editor's misses.

Carry on.

Peace

[jicecone]

Originally posted by GarthB
As a nonsubscriber reading a "netazine" at friend's after dinner, I am not allowed an opinion of the content of this article, nor, unfortunately, of the level of writing, nor the editor's misses.

Carry on.

What article?

Were just trying to decide where is the best location to have a discussion with the coach.

[GarthB]

Originally posted by jicecone

What article?

Were just trying to decide where is the best location to have a discussion with the coach.

The original post was in reference to the article "Controlling the Game, Part Deux", which (here comes a free plug, Carl) can be found at the paid portion of this site: officiating.com.

"Hustling towards the coach" was a suggestion made in the article.

[Edited by GarthB on Aug 16th, 2004 at 01:21 PM]

[WindyCityBlue]

Oops...forgot to add this, my bad!


The best place to have a confrontation (not conversation) is away from your normal position AND away from where the actual play occurred. I was taught this early, reinforced at B-F and can see no reason to abandon it. Nothing is funnier than seeing a coach miming a slide and tag at second, when you are standing forty feet away from the bag. A wise old ump ( who has since left us) told me to try to stay on the grass as much as possible. Apparently he had been Erl Weavered a few times.

I have no problem approaching a coach, as long as my mask is off (keeps me from saying something I may regret) and I'm in control. If I'm on the bases, I may take a step or two away from the play, but if he wants to "talk", he will certainly find me. I've had coaches yell, "GET OVER HEAR!" and I politely replied, "No coach, if you want to talk to me, then you need to come here. Otherwise, let's keep playing."

I agree that we shouldn't bait a guy by charging over to him in the dugout or coaches box, but I don't have a problem putting my hand up (ala "Stop") and taking a few steps towards him to reinforce that we won't tolerate chirping and it let's both teams know (visually and verbally) that you have had enough. We need to remain composed and in charge, but the field is our domain. If you want to share it, you must play nice!

[Jim Porter]

I haven't yet had a chance to read the article in question. However, the most common basic rule of thumb has always been - if the coach is coming out to question a judgment call, let him come to you. If he's coming out to question a tricky ruling, you go to him. Even the Major League umpires stick to that advice.

[LDUB]

Originally posted by Notitia

How do you in advance why the coach is coming out to see you? They're so stupid that half the time they come out it's for a totally incomprehensible reason.

If a coach is coming out onto the field, it is usually obvious what he is going to say. If you just banged a guy out a third base on a close play, he is probally coming out to question your call. If you just enforced the force play slide rule, then he is probally coming out to question how this rule is enforced. Yes sometimes a manager will come out and talk to you when you have no idea what he is going to say, but for the most part, you can predict the conversation.

[chris s]

Unless the coach has a broken leg (and even then I might make him hobble over to talk to me) he has to come to me to talk. [/QUOTE]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~
FED game 3 seasons ago, BU was leaving for Texas League the following week, so it was early season. I had already tossed home mgr for arguing balls/strikes. Then we had a sit where the batter stepped out just as F1 was beginning motion, yup he stopped. Now, fed rules, I coulda banged batter with strike, we both called time and re-set the kids, like OBR. Offense wants a balk, thier pitching coach starts outa dugout towards pard. He has only one leg(probabaly has trouble teaching footwork), he hobbles out to pard in B, only to get immediately tossed without uttering a word.

On the ride home, pard tells me he saw him start out and made his mind up right there......let him hobble and dump him.

[jumpmaster]

Originally posted by Notitia
How do you in advance why the coach is coming out to see you? They're so stupid that half the time they come out it's for a totally incomprehensible reason. [/B]

Young Jedi you have much to learn. Did you ever think that maybe the coach is playing you in order to get an advantage? In fact, our President calls this "strategery".

[WindyCityBlue]

I once had a JUCO coach come out after I punched out his stud shortstop at second on a pick off. I'm prepared for a battle, since he was coaching 3rd base and looking right at it. The guys gets two feet from me and I start, "No way coach, I saw it and he was dead." He puts his head down, looks up and with his head shaking back and forth, arms flailing up and down says, "I saw it too, but the kid's being scouted by Iowa today and I've gotta do something to make him look good." He stayed out there, looked angry, shook his head as he walked away and let me take three more innings of his fan's best one liners.

I saw him two days later and he apologized for how bad it made me look while endearing him to his players and fans. Now some of you would probably take offense at this and on a bad day I might, as well. But I know that some day I will kick a call on his field and will be glad to have that mulligan sitting there.

If I would have dumped this yahoo before I knew what he was doing, I would have lost some respect and a terrific advantage when my "A" game fails me. Sometimes listening is good.

[blarson]

I'll meet them instead of staying where I am. I won't go all the way in but I'll meet them on the way out.

My reasoning is that once I end the conversation, I want to be able to turn and walk away. By leaving my position I actually have some place to go. I turn and leave and if he is follows me then he appears the agressor and he's done.

Also once ejected this gives you space to return to and a spot for your pard to slip in and get the skip off the field. Again if you haven't moved, your going to appear as if you are running away from him and/or your pard will have to insert himself between a very small space between you and the skipper.

Bob