How far will you go to save a game (PART 2)

RookieDude · #1 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 05, 2006, 02:42pm

Well, maybe this situation wasn't a game saver...but, I observed the following, during a game, and would like some opinions.

Varsity Boys...T and C experienced Officials.

In transition...L running beside play. T just crossing mid-court. C, with good speed, at top of the key extended opposite.
A1 dribbling down the key for a lay-up when B1 makes pretty good contact for a foul on A1. I wouldn't say "hammers A1", but close. (A1 fell to floor and slid into wall)
L puts fist up for foul(but, only for a nano second)...and as ball goes OOB on the endline...L quickly changes call to OOB for Team A. Crowd goes nuts...they want the foul.

What should the other two officials do? If anything?
I'll post what they did or did not do later.

I Edited that A1 slid into wall after "foul".

[Edited by RookieDude on Jan 5th, 2006 at 02:48 PM]

ChuckElias · #2 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 05, 2006, 03:26pm

If neither the C nor T had a secondary whistle to go along with the L's whistle, then they do nothing. The Lead judged the contact to be incidental. So C and T will live with that.

If C or T had a whistle for the foul at the same time as the L's whistle, then when the L points OOB, the other partner comes in hard with the fist and whistle and says loudly, "I have the push first!"

JRutledge · #3 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 05, 2006, 03:38pm

I agree that this might look bad because of what you said the officials looked hesitant. There is nothing the other officials can do. They did not make a call. It is safe to say they did not think there was a foul. Apparently the officials that made the call did not believe there was a foul.

I am not sure why some of you guys think other officials should "do something" to bail out another official in these plays. There is still something called "trusting your partner." It sounds to me that this official's partners trusted his decision.

Peace

RookieDude · #4 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 05, 2006, 06:55pm

The T and C came running in and had a huddle with L. The L came out of the huddle with a foul. (His original call)

While that doesn't look good at all...the crew got the call right. It was a foul...it wasn't an OOB call.

I was in the official's room after the game and the L was apologizing all over himself for screwing that up. The T said he should have had the call...but, since he initially saw L's fist go up...he let it go. Then when the L changed his call...he had to come in and fix it.

I agree...at least in this instance...it had to be fixed.

BTW...I was the C.

refTN · #5 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 05, 2006, 07:18pm

I am sorry but the T should not have apologized for not making that call because he should never have tried to make it. I was taught that the T should not be in a hurry on a transition the play. He should do what his position entitles him to do which is TRAIL the play. Unless all 10 players were in transition and past the midcourt line and the ball was on his and L's side would I even phathom coming in with a call from T.

tomegun · #6 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 05, 2006, 08:45pm

Here is my cynical side: Rut and refTN, get out, get out right now! Don't you dare bring some sound, tried-and-true philosophies and mechanics into this discussion. Don't you know we are in a "anybody calls anything" world?

OK, this is a situation where you get the ball back into play as soon as possible. The huddle, conference or whatever else it was not called for. If you don't have a whistle, I wouldn't want to hear anything from you!

Who did you say was experienced again?

tomegun · #7 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 05, 2006, 08:47pm

Quote:

Originally posted by RookieDude

BTW...I was the C.

Thank you. I get the feeling that a lot of situations here are like this. "Uh, I have this friend (wink) and..."

zebraman · #8 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 05, 2006, 09:01pm

Quote:

Originally posted by RookieDude
Well, maybe this situation wasn't a game saver...but, I observed the following, during a game, and would like some opinions.

Varsity Boys...T and C experienced Officials.

In transition...L running beside play. T just crossing mid-court. C, with good speed, at top of the key extended opposite.
A1 dribbling down the key for a lay-up when B1 makes pretty good contact for a foul on A1. I wouldn't say "hammers A1", but close. (A1 fell to floor and slid into wall)
L puts fist up for foul(but, only for a nano second)...and as ball goes OOB on the endline...L quickly changes call to OOB for Team A. Crowd goes nuts...they want the foul.

What should the other two officials do? If anything?
I'll post what they did or did not do later.

I Edited that A1 slid into wall after "foul".

[Edited by RookieDude on Jan 5th, 2006 at 02:48 PM]

If the L beckons the T or C for help, by all means go have a conference. If there was a double-whistle, then the trailing official can come in strong and sell a foul. But for the T or C to go to the L to try to get him change his call...... there went the L's credibility out the window.

I have seen partners miss calls before. We all have. We live with it and move on. What made this situation different.....just because the crowd was going nuts? That is irrelevant.

Z

Camron Rust · #9 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 05, 2006, 09:10pm

On this one, I'm keeping silent. The lead clearly saw the play and made a decision. I'm not going to go in and tell him to change his call.

RookieDude · #10 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 05, 2006, 11:34pm

All the "experienced officials" here have a sound philosophy on this one, IMO. I guess that's why I posted this sitch.
If any of those here had posted what I posted...I would have probably said the basic same things you vets stated.

For some reason that night...my partner (T) and I (C), big-timed the L. I don't think I have ever changed a partner's call like that. The weird thing about it is...my other partner T, was doing the same thing.

The only redeeming thing is...that the L put up his FIST for a FOUL. We gave him a chance to "keep" his original call.

It's lame...but, the only thing I can think of whithout beating my egotistical self up for.

JRutledge · #11 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 05, 2006, 11:46pm

Quote:

Originally posted by tomegun
Here is my cynical side: Rut and refTN, get out, get out right now! Don't you dare bring some sound, tried-and-true philosophies and mechanics into this discussion. Don't you know we are in a "anybody calls anything" world?

I am sorry Tommy. I keep trying to bring logic to discussions here. You have set me straight. Hopefully I will be cured from such discussions.

Peace

BIG O · #12 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 06, 2006, 12:58am

Lone whistle, others swallow fox 40, getty up on inbounding, I'll back you 110%, talk later.

RookieDude · #13 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 06, 2006, 01:04am

Quote:

Originally posted by JRut
I keep trying to bring logic to discussions here.

...and a fine job you do of it, Rut.

Thanks.

refTN · #14 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 06, 2006, 01:41am

Quote:

Originally posted by tomegun
Here is my cynical side: Rut and refTN, get out, get out right now! Don't you dare bring some sound, tried-and-true philosophies and mechanics into this discussion. Don't you know we are in a "anybody calls anything" world?

OK, this is a situation where you get the ball back into play as soon as possible. The huddle, conference or whatever else it was not called for. If you don't have a whistle, I wouldn't want to hear anything from you!

Who did you say was experienced again?

We do need to come up with a new as I guess we are saying on here "buzzword" for not letting the L and C handle a transition play and instead let the T call one from about 60 ft. away. How about "I wish I was more involved in this transition so I will leave the 4 players that are in the backcourt alone and sprint all the way to the other end just in the hopes that I will get to make a call Mentality". Yeah I think we have just started a new one, or it could be that this has been going on for years and years and I just don't know it.

dhodges007 · #15 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 06, 2006, 01:44am

Quote:

Originally posted by JRutledge
I agree that this might look bad because of what you said the officials looked hesitant. There is nothing the other officials can do. They did not make a call. It is safe to say they did not think there was a foul. Apparently the officials that made the call did not believe there was a foul.

I am not sure why some of you guys think other officials should "do something" to bail out another official in these plays. There is still something called "trusting your partner." It sounds to me that this official's partners trusted his decision.

Peace

I agree...