The Downside of Double Whistles

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by BDevil15

Here's my impression of double whistles as a coach...

Do double whistles, to some coaches, have a sort of "confirmatory" effect? "Well, if they both saw it, it must have happened that way"? Or no? Or is that to general to deserve an answer one way or the other?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

In B, it may be that there are two different things that happened. They need to figure out which happened first and it is possible that neither can know that without having the discussion.

"I got a good look at your held ball but I had a holding foul right before the held ball occurred".

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Freddy

Do double whistles, to some coaches, have a sort of "confirmatory" effect? "Well, if they both saw it, it must have happened that way"? Or no?

Some (but not all) coaches are very observant. "Your partner had an open hand up for a violation, while you had your fist up for a foul".

[Mark Padgett]

I think we should all use double whistles.

[Mregor]

Double whistles are not necessarily a bad thing. Just don't give a prelim. I'm in 2-man state. We probably have more than 3-man although it's been so long in 2-man I can't remember anymore.

Point is, you need to discuss how you will handle them and don't prelim right away. I work with regular P so we give up to person who is PCA as a general rule but have exceptions like when 1 official has mad e the last several calls. If we believe we may have different calls, we will ask the other and get the "nod". Either way, pregame how you are going to handle double whistles because they happen and are not a bad thing; it's how they are handled that is important.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Mregor

Double whistles are not necessarily a bad thing. Just don't give a prelim. I'm in 2-man state. We probably have more than 3-man although it's been so long in 2-man I can't remember anymore.



Point is, you need to discuss how you will handle them and don't prelim right away. I work with regular P so we give up to person who is PCA as a general rule but have exceptions like when 1 official has mad e the last several calls. If we believe we may have different calls, we will ask the other and get the "nod". Either way, pregame how you are going to handle double whistles because they happen and are not a bad thing; it's how they are handled that is important.

No traction at all to move to 3-person?

I haven't worked a 2-person game in 3 years now. If they ever went back, I'd retire. 30 years in...any more is gravy.

More double whistles in 2-person.

In 3 I generally like to give the primary official the first crack and hild my whistle an extra beat. If he hits it, I don't. If he doesn't, I come and get it.

[packersowner]

How many coaches or fans would even know (other than the audible sound) or care about a double whistle? As a practitioner, you/we make it an issue, but I can unscientifically promise you that unless coaches, players or fans are astute observers of officials and mechanics, they don't care one bit about this.

Double whistles are only an issue when you have two different calls. To the point that was made earlier, it could be the symptom of an underlying problem. So address the underlying problem.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by packersowner

How many coaches or fans would even know (other than the audible sound) or care about a double whistle? As a practitioner, you/we make it an issue, but I can unscientifically promise you that unless coaches, players or fans are astute observers of officials and mechanics, they don't care one bit about this.

Double whistles are only an issue when you have two different calls. To the point that was made earlier, it could be the symptom of an underlying problem. So address the underlying problem.

Having 2 whistles on every foul at the rim means that the crew just doesn't have good whistle discipline. If I can't, as the outside official, hold for a beat to let my lead, in his primary, have the only whistle on the play......why?

Sure we have a fair number of double whistles -- in areas where primary areas overlap. But there are some that just don't need to happen if officials have patient whistles.

[BryanV21]

My question on double whistles is this... Why are you looking there instead of your primary?

There are fine reasons for them (like the lead following somebody driving from their PCA into the lane), though.

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[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

My question on double whistles is this... Why are you looking there instead of your primary?

There are fine reasons for them (like the lead following somebody driving from their PCA into the lane), though.

So what if the play takes place in the lane? Many of the players are going to be in the lane and most of the competitive match-ups will be there if the ball is there as well. So that is one reason I would be looking there as a T or C for sure. And the Lead is not going to see certain plays as they spin away from them or the contact or violation happens while the lead is looking through bodies.

Even in a two person game (which I was not originally referring to), there are plays on the back side that would be only seen by the T and not the L. So you might have a double whistle easily for those reasons.

PCA does not mean, "only my area." It means it is your primary, but there are several reasons to have secondary coverage.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by packersowner

How many coaches or fans would even know (other than the audible sound) or care about a double whistle? As a practitioner, you/we make it an issue, but I can unscientifically promise you that unless coaches, players or fans are astute observers of officials and mechanics, they don't care one bit about this.

Actually they think we all watch the same darn thing anyway. And if you call something in what they think is in front of someone, they think that only that person should have had a whistle. Which is silly based on what we know to with our mechanics. Even if it is your line or it is a play right in front of them, they think you are supposed to "help them out."

Originally Posted by packersowner

Double whistles are only an issue when you have two different calls. To the point that was made earlier, it could be the symptom of an underlying problem. So address the underlying problem.

And if you have two different calls, then you might just need to address the two different calls. For example a travel might have happen before a crash. Well it is proper to call a travel if you see one and if it was caused by a foul, then that should be addressed as well. Either way, if you have discussed this in pregame or have a basic philosophy, you often just tell the coach, "I had the same thing." How are they going to really know anyway? All they care about are the calls right. They will still argue with you if the call goes against them and they felt you did not get something in their favor. So who really cares what coaches, players or fans think.

Peace

[Rich]

I called a rebounding foul as the trail yesterday and one of the assistants started to argue that only the lead should be making that call. I told the HC to let his assistant know I really didn't need his help.

[BryanV21]

I never said there weren't other good reasons to have double whistles. And the point is to make sure each area is covered.

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[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Rich

I told the HC to let his assistant know I really didn't need his help.

My nomination for Post O' The Month.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Freddy

To the extent that perhaps one or two might be interested, here's a PDF of the PowerPoint lesson our association trainer came up with. The perspectives of some of the responders to this thread contributed to some of the points he made.
Totally FYI. Feedback welcome, if any have any on anything.

"Double Whistles" Lesson - PDF

I am unable to download a PDF. Chrome thinks this is an audio file.