6 Players penalty

[BigT]

Why is the penalty bigger for a dead ball sub coming onto the court vs live ball a player comes flying onto the court..?

[Welpe]

When is the sixth player running on to the court and from where? Directly from their bench?

Originally Posted by BigT

Why is the penalty bigger for a dead ball sub coming onto the court vs live ball a player comes flying onto the court..?

It's not. Why do you think it is?

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by BigT

Why is the penalty bigger for a dead ball sub coming onto the court vs live ball a player comes flying onto the court..?

If there is a dead ball and a sub comes in without reporting i will send him to the table to report. i don't want to call that T at any level if i can avoid it. If someone runs onto the floor without reporting during live ball i don't have much choice but to penalize it. Substitute technical.

6 players on court usually occurs because someone doesn't come off the floor after someone else has properly reported. If someone does run on the floor during a live ball and you don't see it, nor does anybody else, and all you know is there are 6 for one team then you call the team technical. you don't know who came in without reporting.

[BigT]

BigCat now that makes sense to me. Your clarification has been awesome.

Thanks for answering ALL my questions and those situations so I know how to properly penalize.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by BigT

BigCat now that makes sense to me. Your clarification has been awesome.

Thanks for answering ALL my questions and those situations so I know how to properly penalize.

not a problem. I/we around here harp on reading rules over and over and case book over and over because they are like a giant puzzle. One aspect is connected to another and others to others. When you read them over and over you start seeing how things fit together and impact other areas.

And the case book is a must. folks only reading the rule book are missing A LOT.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by BigCat

If someone runs onto the floor without reporting during live ball i don't have much choice but to penalize it. Substitute technical.

I think that depends upon where they come from and what they do. This could also be a technical on bench personnel which would result in an indirect to the HC also.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Welpe

I think that depends upon where they come from and what they do. This could also be a technical on bench personnel which would result in an indirect to the HC also.

obviously, what's going on at the time matters and his reasons for running on floor. if there's a confrontation on the floor and B6 runs out then he's gone and coach gets indirect. my comments were directed more at his play. Frankly, usually when a player doesn't check in and comes on during live ball its a screwup and not related to unsportsmanlike issues. that's where i was focused.

Welpe, what do you mean by the "where they come from" portion? thx

[Welpe]

Unsportsmanlike conduct isn't the only reason I'd stick a player as bench personnel. If he comes off the bench and "hot swaps" as play is live, I think there's an argument to make for making it an indirect to the HC also.

The penalty under 10-3 says that it is penalized if discovered before the ball becomes live. That tells me that fouls under 10-3 are intended to be applied only during dead ball situations when the substitute does not follow proper procedure.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Unsportsmanlike conduct isn't the only reason I'd stick a player as bench personnel. If he comes off the bench and "hot swaps" as play is live, I think there's an argument to make for making it an indirect to the HC also.

The penalty under 10-3 says that it is penalized if discovered before the ball becomes live. That tells me that fouls under 10-3 are intended to be applied only during dead ball situations when the substitute does not follow proper procedure.

I see what you are saying. I havnt read it that way. not saying your wrong just i havnt read it that way.

And i don't know what "hot swaps" means but it sounds unsportsmanlike to me...

[BigT]

If I saw the coach distracting illegal picking the referee while this hot swap happened I agree with more of a bench T. If I saw the player just jump out and try to sub I would call a sub T. Having the coach get an indirect being the only difference isnt this massive problem and I think it could be sold easily.

[Welpe]

Sorry computer term slipped in there. What I mean by hot swap is one player comes on, one comes off while the ball is still live.

That's just the way I read it. Like many parts of the NFHS rules, it's somewhat vague so I see your side of it too.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Welpe

The penalty under 10-3 says that it is penalized if discovered before the ball becomes live. That tells me that fouls under 10-3 are intended to be applied only during dead ball situations when the substitute does not follow proper procedure.

Welpe, finally had time to get into case book at length. Take a look at 10.3.2. Substitute tech plays. A6 runs onto court during live ball and while clock runnning. Sub tech if it is discovered before ball becomes live following first dead ball. Thx

[Welpe]

OK I can buy that. Perhaps the line of whether it should be a foul against bench personnel does depend upon if he's doing something unsporting or not.