End of game situation

[rlarry]

There is team control, A1'S shot went out of bounds


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[deecee]

Originally Posted by rlarry

There is team control, A1'S shot went out of bounds


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It's a missed FT. The horn sounded before the ball went OOB (which if the horn doesn't sound or things play out the ball is going to Team B). Team A is up by 1 with .6 seconds. Those are the facts.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by deecee

It's a missed FT. The horn sounded before the ball went OOB (which if the horn doesn't sound or things play out the ball is going to Team B). Team A is up by 1 with .6 seconds. Those are the facts.

I see your point, but it's equating the incorrect horn with an inadvertent whistle. There's no coverage for a "false horn" in 4-36-1. This is not, IMHO, a POI situation unless the official chooses to acknowledge the horn with a whistle.


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[deecee]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

I see your point, but it's equating the incorrect horn with an inadvertent whistle. There's no coverage for a "false horn" in 4-36-1. This is not, IMHO, a POI situation unless the official chooses to acknowledge the horn with a whistle.


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Except what makes the ball dead? The horn sounding the end of playing time unless the ball is in flight for a shot. This isn't a horn issue, its a timing issue.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by deecee

Except what makes the ball dead? The horn sounding the end of playing time unless the ball is in flight for a shot. This isn't a horn issue, its a timing issue.

If the clock had been properly started, I'd agree with you. But the official knew that the horn should never have sounded because he never chopped in time. So it's not a legitimate horn.

I suppose we may have to agree to disagree. This is a great play for discussion, I do admit.


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[Rich]

It's not cut-and-dried to me.

I'm likely going to give B the ball at the OOB spot and reset the clock. It's the outcome that would've happened and sometimes you have to officiate with the rule book, not to it.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Rich

It's not cut-and-dried to me.

I'm likely going to give B the ball at the OOB spot and reset the clock. It's the outcome that would've happened and sometimes you have to officiate with the rule book, not to it.

+1. That was what my initial post was supposed to convey.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Rich

It's not cut-and-dried to me.

I'm likely going to give B the ball at the OOB spot and reset the clock. It's the outcome that would've happened and sometimes you have to officiate with the rule book, not to it.

Agreed. It's one of those plays where if it's on a test you put down one answer and if it's a real game you *might* do something different.

I have had a similar game where the FT was missed and all 10 (well, probably 5 or so) players were going for the ball when the horn went off -- we had to go to the arrow. The HT coach was NOT happy with his timer.

[LRZ]

There is no TC while the ball is in flight during a try for a goal (Rule 4-12-3, 4-12-6); a FT is a try for a goal (4-20-1); so there was no TC.

A1 was the last to touch the live ball before it went out of bounds (Rule 7-2-1). Officials may correct obvious timing mistakes when they have definite information of the time involved (Rule 5-10-1).

So B's ball for a throw-in, with .6 seconds on the clock.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

If the clock had been properly started, I'd agree with you. But the official knew that the horn should never have sounded because he never chopped in time. So it's not a legitimate horn.

I suppose we may have to agree to disagree. This is a great play for discussion, I do admit.


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You're missing the point. Whether the clock should or shouldn't have stopped, or started is irrelevant. It's that it did. Therefore it's a timing error and mistake and the horn going off is part of that mistake. Part of the error is that regulation should NOT have ended. So the horn isn't the error, it's that the clock started when it shouldn't have.

[BigCat]

When the end of a quarter, half or game is really close...seconds, and the clock is going to be started on an inbounds play or, as here, a FT, it isnt a bad idea to remind the timer to start it "on my signal."

"Watch my arm ...etc". There are timers who i know dont need this reminder but it doesnt hurt to say it.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by rlarry

There is team control, A1'S shot went out of bounds


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No, there's not team control. That ended as soon as A1 released the FT.
The horn does not cause the ball to become dead. Let it play out and don't blow the whistle until it hits, now you resume with B ball due to the OOB violation on A.

I get that this is slightly different because the horn signaled the end of the quarter. That horn normally causes the ball to become dead.

I'm still giving the ball to B unless the horn going off interrupted A's efforts to get the ball. If A wasn't trying (no reason they would be here), do what should have happened.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Adam

No, there's not team control. That ended as soon as A1 released the FT.
The horn does not cause the ball to become dead. Let it play out and don't blow the whistle until it hits, now you resume with B ball due to the OOB violation on A.

I get that this is slightly different because the horn signaled the end of the quarter. That horn normally causes the ball to become dead.

I'm still giving the ball to B unless the horn going off interrupted A's efforts to get the ball. If A wasn't trying (no reason they would be here), do what should have happened.

Look at my play above and read entire post. Post 16. What do you do? Thx forgot to say PLEASE

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BigCat

Look at my play above and read entire post. Post 16. What do you do? Thx forgot to say PLEASE

I'm with bob.

[BryanV21]

It's unlikely Team A would be able to score again in the time allotted, and would thus lose the game, leaving the HC angry and with questions about the end.

If that HC asks about it, am I just to say "I'm sorry coach, but we have to go by the rules, and the rules say this is how to handle that situation. I understand your anger, but there's nothing I can do."?