End of game situation

[just another ref]

Interesting ending to the game ahead of my games tonight. Game is tied at 67 when A1 if fouled with .6 on the clock, shooting 2. He makes the first. Coach pulls his two rebounders off the line and sends them to the other end. A1 misses the second, the ball bounces toward the corner. B1 watches the ball hit the floor and takes a position to screen off A1 in case he tries to recover it. (he doesn't) Just before the ball goes out of bounds untouched..............the horn sounds. The timer had started the clock when the ball hit the floor.


What's the call?

[rlarry]

Timer mistake.Reset the clock, B throw in, designated spot

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[deecee]

Technically you would go to the arrow, but if it were clearly going to go OOB and B was going to get the ball I would go with that, especially if the arrow went to A in this case.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by deecee

Technically you would go to the arrow, but if it were clearly going to go OOB and B was going to get the ball I would go with that, especially if the arrow went to A in this case.

Ummmmm.

So let's say B3 fires up a 3, clearly a try. Air ball. Ball bounces near the end line and goes out of bounds untouched. Are you saying we'd go to the arrow here, too? How is the OP free-throw situation any different?


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[deecee]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

Ummmmm.

So let's say B3 fires up a 3, clearly a try. Air ball. Ball bounces near the end line and goes out of bounds untouched. Are you saying we'd go to the arrow here, too? How is the OP free-throw situation any different?


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Why would we go to the arrow. If the ball is live and inbounds and there is no player control or team control and we have an issue and everyone stops play (say the time runs out erroneously), what is your proper procedure for putting the ball back in play?

[rlarry]

There is team control, A1'S shot went out of bounds


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[deecee]

Originally Posted by rlarry

There is team control, A1'S shot went out of bounds


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It's a missed FT. The horn sounded before the ball went OOB (which if the horn doesn't sound or things play out the ball is going to Team B). Team A is up by 1 with .6 seconds. Those are the facts.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by deecee

It's a missed FT. The horn sounded before the ball went OOB (which if the horn doesn't sound or things play out the ball is going to Team B). Team A is up by 1 with .6 seconds. Those are the facts.

I see your point, but it's equating the incorrect horn with an inadvertent whistle. There's no coverage for a "false horn" in 4-36-1. This is not, IMHO, a POI situation unless the official chooses to acknowledge the horn with a whistle.


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[deecee]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

I see your point, but it's equating the incorrect horn with an inadvertent whistle. There's no coverage for a "false horn" in 4-36-1. This is not, IMHO, a POI situation unless the official chooses to acknowledge the horn with a whistle.


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Except what makes the ball dead? The horn sounding the end of playing time unless the ball is in flight for a shot. This isn't a horn issue, its a timing issue.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by deecee

Except what makes the ball dead? The horn sounding the end of playing time unless the ball is in flight for a shot. This isn't a horn issue, its a timing issue.

If the clock had been properly started, I'd agree with you. But the official knew that the horn should never have sounded because he never chopped in time. So it's not a legitimate horn.

I suppose we may have to agree to disagree. This is a great play for discussion, I do admit.


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[Rich]

It's not cut-and-dried to me.

I'm likely going to give B the ball at the OOB spot and reset the clock. It's the outcome that would've happened and sometimes you have to officiate with the rule book, not to it.

[LRZ]

There is no TC while the ball is in flight during a try for a goal (Rule 4-12-3, 4-12-6); a FT is a try for a goal (4-20-1); so there was no TC.

A1 was the last to touch the live ball before it went out of bounds (Rule 7-2-1). Officials may correct obvious timing mistakes when they have definite information of the time involved (Rule 5-10-1).

So B's ball for a throw-in, with .6 seconds on the clock.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Rich

It's not cut-and-dried to me.

I'm likely going to give B the ball at the OOB spot and reset the clock. It's the outcome that would've happened and sometimes you have to officiate with the rule book, not to it.

+1. That was what my initial post was supposed to convey.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

If the clock had been properly started, I'd agree with you. But the official knew that the horn should never have sounded because he never chopped in time. So it's not a legitimate horn.

I suppose we may have to agree to disagree. This is a great play for discussion, I do admit.


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You're missing the point. Whether the clock should or shouldn't have stopped, or started is irrelevant. It's that it did. Therefore it's a timing error and mistake and the horn going off is part of that mistake. Part of the error is that regulation should NOT have ended. So the horn isn't the error, it's that the clock started when it shouldn't have.

[BigCat]

When the end of a quarter, half or game is really close...seconds, and the clock is going to be started on an inbounds play or, as here, a FT, it isnt a bad idea to remind the timer to start it "on my signal."

"Watch my arm ...etc". There are timers who i know dont need this reminder but it doesnt hurt to say it.