Intentional Foul?

[Shooter14]

Live Ball Contact=Intentional (Can not have a LIVE BALL CONTACT technical)
Dead Ball Contact/Dead Ball Anything=Technical (Can not have a DEAD BALL CONTACT intentional)

Remember the ball is live during a throw-in.

The only live ball technicals you can have are for unsporting acts or delays. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. But this is an easy way for me to remember.

[Valley Man]

Originally Posted by Shooter14

Dead Ball Contact/Dead Ball Anything=Technical (Can not have a DEAD BALL CONTACT intentional)

Sura ya can. A1 scores and shoves B1 out of his way as he turns to go up the floor. Intentional Technical Foul. Ball is dead.

[Shooter14]

Originally Posted by Valley Man

Sura ya can. A1 scores and shoves B1 out of his way as he turns to go up the floor. Intentional Technical Foul. Ball is dead.

And if this happens, how would you penalize? Technical procedure, or Intentional procedure? I was trying to keep it simple. Is an Intentional Technical, not still a TECHNICAL?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Shooter14

And if this happens, how would you penalize? Technical procedure, or Intentional procedure? I was trying to keep it simple. Is an Intentional Technical, not still a TECHNICAL?

You will keep it simple once you recognize that there's no such thing as an Intentional Procedure or Intentional (alone) foul.

All fouls are either Personal or Technical. Within those categories, they can have modifiers, such as Common, Intentional, Flagrant, Player Control, Team Control, etc. I think (off the top of my head) that all personal fouls get a modifier; a "plain" technical does not.

So, your question above is obvious -- it was and Intentional Technical foul and should be penalized as such (it was not an Intentional Personal) foul.

[Shooter14]

Do you think for a first year official that that's a lot of information? I would tell the first year official in this case; Contact occurred during dead ball=It's either technical, or it's nothing. Why get into all the other degrees? I personally wouldn't. I don't think that makes me wrong, and if you want to explain all the different types, you are not wrong either.

But in the play where there's a push during a dead ball, If you decide it can't be ignored, it's going to be a technical (not stating the type). Two free throws for any member on the floor of the offended team. Ball out at division line, opposite the table.

[Shooter14]

And I know I'm not using correct verbage, but in my head I use "intentional procedure" and "technical procedure".

"Intentional procedure"-The player fouled shoots, ball out of bounds at the point of interruption.

"Technical procedure"-Two free throws for any member, ball out at division line.

In his original post;Technical foul. Follow "Technical procedure"

Would I be wrong in my game to call a technical on player who shoved, award 2 free throws to any member on the floor, and put the ball in at division line?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Shooter14

Do you think for a first year official that that's a lot of information? I would tell the first year official in this case; Contact occurred during dead ball=It's either technical, or it's nothing. Why get into all the other degrees? I personally wouldn't. I don't think that makes me wrong, and if you want to explain all the different types, you are not wrong either.

You need to get into the "degrees" because it might be flagrant. There are at least three choices -- nothing (in terms of a penalty), Intentional Technical and Flagrant Technical.

Originally Posted by Shooter14

And I know I'm not using correct verbage, but in my head I use "intentional procedure" and "technical procedure".

"Intentional procedure"-The player fouled shoots, ball out of bounds at the point of interruption.

"Technical procedure"-Two free throws for any member, ball out at division line.

You can use what ever verbiage you want, but just calling it "intentional" and not "intentional personal" is what leads to all the confusion.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

You will keep it simple once you recognize that there's no such thing as an Intentional Procedure or Intentional (alone) foul.

All fouls are either Personal or Technical. Within those categories, they can have modifiers, such as Common, Intentional, Flagrant, Player Control, Team Control, etc. I think (off the top of my head) that all personal fouls get a modifier; a "plain" technical does not.

So, your question above is obvious -- it was and Intentional Technical foul and should be penalized as such (it was not an Intentional Personal) foul.

Originally Posted by Shooter14

Do you think for a first year official that that's a lot of information? I would tell the first year official in this case; Contact occurred during dead ball=It's either technical, or it's nothing. Why get into all the other degrees? I personally wouldn't. I don't think that makes me wrong, and if you want to explain all the different types, you are not wrong either.

But in the play where there's a push during a dead ball, If you decide it can't be ignored, it's going to be a technical (not stating the type). Two free throws for any member on the floor of the offended team. Ball out at division line, opposite the table.

Shooter14:

No, I do not think that is a lot of information for a first year official. I taught the OhioHSAA mandatory new officials' course for ten years and drilled into the new officials that Rule 4 is the most important rule in the book.

MTD, Sr.

[Shooter14]

Originally Posted by Shooter14

Would I be wrong in my game to call a technical on player who shoved, award 2 free throws to any member on the floor, and put the ball in at division line?

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Shooter14:

No, I do not think that is a lot of information for a first year official. I taught the OhioHSAA mandatory new officials' course for ten years and drilled into the new officials that Rule 4 is the most important rule in the book.

MTD, Sr.

Am I wrong in the above situation?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by shooter14

live ball contact=intentional (can not have a live ball contact technical)
dead ball contact/dead ball anything=technical (can not have a dead ball contact intentional personal foul)

remember the ball is live during a throw-in.

The only live ball technicals you can have are for unsporting acts or delays. Someone correct me if i'm wrong. But this is an easy way for me to remember.

fify

[crosscountry55]

In an effort not to paralyze the OP with details....

You're right that you have two options. They are A) nothing due to incidental, or B) intentional technical (most officials just call it a "technical" but the distinction is important because you're learning and taking exams this time of year).

Based on your description, what you choose really depends on what you meant by "pushes."

Is it possible that A2 was simply slow to react to the whistle and was in the process of committing a normal common foul that was associated with making a play vice acting out in frustration? If so, I'd rule this incidental, but I'd take a few quick steps toward A2 and B2 to make my presence known in an effort to keep B2 from retaliating in case he felt "slighted." Great opportunity for good dead ball officiating here without necessarily imposing any penalties.

However, if A2 clearly should have known to stop on the whistle....but didn't, and/or you detect an unsporting or frustrated vibe from A2's push, then I'd whistle the "T" here. Because it's a T, any eligible member of Team B may shoot the free throws and we resume play with a throw-in to Team B at the division line opposite the table. Oh, and now that you have a foul before the AP throw-in is complete, the arrow is suspended until the next AP situation; whoever had it to begin with keeps it....it's like the held ball never happened.