Hanging on the rim

[jeremy341a]

Ball went in but that was after the defender got landed on. He had no chance to get the board (would have been tough anyways) and then zero chance to defend the putback. I think you have to get the foul here.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by jeremy341a

Ball went in but that was after the defender got landed on. He had no chance to get the board (would have been tough anyways) and then zero chance to defend the putback. I think you have to get the foul here.

I looked at it again and the ball didn't go in. You and blindoblat are correct. No T but the defender wasn't able to defend after the rebound. Foul on offense. Good calls by you both.

[HokiePaul]

Great videos to start thinking about for the upcoming season. I had nothing on all 3 initially, but after reviewing the comments, I agree that the 3rd should be a foul.

1) I'd let this go. Any pull up appeared to be him slowing his momentum and checking to see where the defender was before dropping to the ground. There didn't seem to be any intent to show up the opponent here so unless there had been something previously, I'm not jumping in on that.

2) It's a long way away, but I tend to give players the benefit of the doubt on safety. Even if he did grasp the ring, I think it was more protecting himself from hitting the rim after the pass got deflected vs gaining an advantage on the rebound.

3) Grabs the basket to prevent injury. Agree after watching the video that it should have been a foul. I'm going team control foul too. It looks like the contact occurred right after his teammate got the rebound but before the shot. No basket.

[packersowner]

I'm in the camp that holding on the rim for safety is an overused excuse. In play 1, if A flushes the dunk and momentum keeps him moving, there is no safety issue. When I see legs go swinging to me that's going to get called more times than not.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by packersowner

I'm in the camp that holding on the rim for safety is an overused excuse.....

Excuse = person explaining himself for his actions.

We go by judgment. WE judge whether or not the player did it for safety reasons.

This isn't about proving a point about something we don't personally like. It's about adjudicating the rules with our best, unbiased judgment. Supervisors don't want officials actively looking to make "I gotcha" calls.

[packersowner]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Excuse = person explaining himself for his actions.

We go by judgment. WE judge whether or not the player did it for safety reasons.

This isn't about proving a point about something we don't personally like. It's about adjudicating the rules with our best, unbiased judgment.

Not really, safety is the exception to the rule. Grasping the rim is a technical. My point is, the classic line from every coach regardless of what you call is going to be safety.

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Supervisors don't want officials actively looking to make "I gotcha" calls.

I don't disagree and I am not going to die on this hill most days, but the opposing coach in the video, also thought it should have been called. We all have our threshold for what is unsportsmanlike and what is done for safety reasons. My point is that whenever these plays are shown, the first thing everyone goes to is safety and I think its too easy to make that excuse. I'm never going to have a problem defending either call with a supervisor, but if a supervisor looks at a tape afterwards and there isn't a safety concern, then thats on me and the opposing coach has just as much right to be upset.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by packersowner

... My point is that whenever these plays are shown, the first thing everyone goes to is safety and I think its too easy to make that excuse. I'm never going to have a problem defending either call with a supervisor, but if a supervisor looks at a tape afterwards and there isn't a safety concern, then thats on me and the opposing coach has just as much right to be upset.

My supervisors will be more upset with me for calling one that is borderline than for missing one that was there.

[crosscountry55]

Sue me for opening an old thread, but I thought it made sense in this case. Partner called a hanging T last night. The other two of us were starting to put air in our whistles when he did. The dunker did the slightest little quarter chin-up, but what sealed the deal for us was the country minute that he hung for, without another soul anywhere nearby underneath. It was a no-brainer to all of us.

What was interesting was the coach’s argument. He knew he couldn’t talk about players underneath, so he insisted that his player had a right to keep hanging until he stopped swinging because he could break his neck if he didn’t. This wasn’t a flyer of an argument; he really believed himself.

Oh give me a break. I had to walk away. One of the dumber things I’ve ever heard a coach say. If dunking were so dangerous it would be illegal.


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[zm1283]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

Sue me for opening an old thread, but I thought it made sense in this case. Partner called a hanging T last night. The other two of us were starting to put air in our whistles when he did. The dunker did the slightest little quarter chin-up, but what sealed the deal for us was the country minute that he hung for, without another soul anywhere nearby underneath. It was a no-brainer to all of us.

What was interesting was the coach’s argument. He knew he couldn’t talk about players underneath, so he insisted that his player had a right to keep hanging until he stopped swinging because he could break his neck if he didn’t. This wasn’t a flyer of an argument; he really believed himself.

Oh give me a break. I had to walk away. One of the dumber things I’ve ever heard a coach say. If dunking were so dangerous it would be illegal.


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I think he may be talking about what happened in the first video of the OP of this thread (Which I don't think is a technical). If a player has a lot of forward momentum and his feet swing up in front of him, I'm not going to penalize him if he swings back perpendicular to the ground so he can land on his feet and not on his back. I'm not talking about hanging there for several seconds or doing a pull up.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by zm1283

I think he may be talking about what happened in the first video of the OP of this thread (Which I don't think is a technical). If a player has a lot of forward momentum and his feet swing up in front of him, I'm not going to penalize him if he swings back perpendicular to the ground so he can land on his feet and not on his back. I'm not talking about hanging there for several seconds or doing a pull up.

Ok, I’ll give you that. No one expects a player to be required to release the rim so as to land on his back. But that is decidedly not what we observed. Our dunker’s swing was never more than 10 degrees off perpendicular. There was zero risk in his landing. He just decided to hang there and make a spectacle of himself. Apparently his coach felt that somehow put his neck at risk?


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[FormerUmp]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

Ok, I’ll give you that. No one expects a player to be required to release the rim so as to land on his back. But that is decidedly not what we observed. Our dunker’s swing was never more than 10 degrees off perpendicular. There was zero risk in his landing. He just decided to hang there and make a spectacle of himself. Apparently his coach felt that somehow put his neck at risk?


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What alternative did he have? Accept that his player did something worthy of a technical? Never!

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by zm1283

I think he may be talking about what happened in the first video of the OP of this thread (Which I don't think is a technical). If a player has a lot of forward momentum and his feet swing up in front of him, I'm not going to penalize him if he swings back perpendicular to the ground so he can land on his feet and not on his back. I'm not talking about hanging there for several seconds or doing a pull up.

The only reason that player's feet swung up in front of him is because he was hanging on the rim to start with.

[FormerUmp]

http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=22138361

I don't know if he slipped or tried to come off too early. Maybe something to keep in mind if you feel you're getting too quick to whistle a T? Just throwing this out there in a related thread.

[bucky]

1. T
2. T
3. Foul - player jumps nearly over, but not quite, defender with all kinds of illegal contact to the defender's head. Then, no-call the rim-grab for safety.

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by FormerUmp

Dunn faceplants after transition slam - ESPN Video

I don't know if he slipped or tried to come off too early. Maybe something to keep in mind if you feel you're getting too quick to whistle a T? Just throwing this out there in a related thread.

This play is exactly what was on my mind as I was reading/re-reading people say that player safety was an overused excuse.

Over the years I've seen enough dangerous situations with players having certain momentum and trajectory that I'm going to err on the side of allowing them to protect themselves in those instances.