I wish NFHS mechanics indicated...

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Because that is a college (and pro) mechanic. And for the record your jurisdiction can do whatever the heck they want in this area. Mechanics are not something we are all tied to either way. If your state or associations wants to do something else, that is their right. The NF is a starting point for most of us, but not everything has to be done to the letter of the NF mechanics.

I would also assume that the reason there is only 1 hand reporting, is the fact that the NF (or any HS organization) wants to make things simple and to complicated.

Peace

Sure, but the reality is that a lot of states use NFHS mechanics to the letter and are not going to make changes on their own.

I don't agree that two handed reporting makes anything more complicated.

[BryanV21]

Two hand reporting can also be confusing for the table.

Say I want to report a foul on number "21", so I hold up two fingers on my left hand and one finger on my right. When looking at it from my viewpoint I'm showing "21", but from the table's viewpoint I'm showing number "12". And if the table can't hear me verbally say "21", they may give the foul to the wrong player, thus causing problems down the road.

There needs to be a specific mechanic given by the NF for reporting player numbers with two hands, so that both the official and table know what to do/look for. However, there's not. So you're inevitably going to run into problems like I described. Therefore... keep it simple-stupid.

BTW, I think we all have worked games with people at the table that are less than competent. And perhaps that's not as much of a problem at the college level, thus making two-handed foul reporting less of a problem.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

Two hand reporting can also be confusing for the table.

Say I want to report a foul on number "21", so I hold up two fingers on my left hand and one finger on my right. When looking at it from my viewpoint I'm showing "21", but from the table's viewpoint I'm showing number "12". And if the table can't hear me verbally say "21", they may give the foul to the wrong player, thus causing problems down the road.

There needs to be a specific mechanic given by the NF for reporting player numbers with two hands, so that both the official and table know what to do/look for. However, there's not. So you're inevitably going to run into problems like I described. Therefore... keep it simple-stupid.

BTW, I think we all have worked games with people at the table that are less than competent. And perhaps that's not as much of a problem at the college level, thus making two-handed foul reporting less of a problem.

There is already a standard for 2-hand reporting. Right hand is the "tens" and left hand is the "ones". That way the table reads us from their left to their right.

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

There is already a standard for 2-hand reporting. Right hand is the "tens" and left hand is the "ones". That way the table reads us from their left to their right.

This. Every level of two-handed reporting does it this way and any scorekeeper worth their salt should be able to handle two-handed reporting. Most of the time the scorekeeper knows who the foul is on anyway.

[Adam]

Two-handed reporting is just a matter of time, but I just don't get the obsession with it. I really couldn't care less either way. This is one potential rule/mechanic change I would not vote for or against.

No, it's not difficult to do.
No, it's not difficult to read from the scorer's table.
No, it doesn't really add anything to the game.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

There is already a standard for 2-hand reporting. Right hand is the "tens" and left hand is the "ones". That way the table reads us from their left to their right.

And I think that this is why we do not have a overall mechanical change as this is exactly the concern. We have officials that cannot get right one hand (putting hands in front of body or face and cannot raise their hand in the air properly) reporting right and why I feel they have yet to make a change.

Peace

[Hugh Refner]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

There is already a standard for 2-hand reporting. Right hand is the "tens" and left hand is the "ones".

This mechanic was developed to relieve us from having to take our shoes and socks off to indicate a foul on a player whose number was higher than 10.

[BryanV21]

I didn't know there was a standard in high school officiating. I don't see the big deal, anyway.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

I didn't know there was a standard in high school officiating. I don't see the big deal, anyway.

There isn't. There is a standard for 2-hand reporting, in response to this:

Originally Posted by BryanV21

Two hand reporting can also be confusing for the table.

Say I want to report a foul on number "21", so I hold up two fingers on my left hand and one finger on my right. When looking at it from my viewpoint I'm showing "21", but from the table's viewpoint I'm showing number "12". And if the table can't hear me verbally say "21", they may give the foul to the wrong player, thus causing problems down the road...

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

There isn't. There is a standard for 2-hand reporting, in response to this:

And I said I didn't know there was a high school standard. Thus making the prior comment about the confusion unnecessary or just wrong.

[APG]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

Say I want to report a foul on number "21", so I hold up two fingers on my left hand and one finger on my right. When looking at it from my viewpoint I'm showing "21", but from the table's viewpoint I'm showing number "12". And if the table can't hear me verbally say "21", they may give the foul to the wrong player, thus causing problems down the road.

That's on the official for not reporting correctly.

[Raymond]

So let's start over.

Originally Posted by BryanV21

Two hand reporting can also be confusing for the table.
Say I want to report a foul on number "21", so I hold up two fingers on my left hand and one finger on my right. When looking at it from my viewpoint I'm showing "21", but from the table's viewpoint I'm showing number "12". And if the table can't hear me verbally say "21", they may give the foul to the wrong player, thus causing problems down the road.

There needs to be a specific mechanic given by the NF for reporting player numbers with two hands, so that both the official and table know what to do/look for. However, there's not. So you're inevitably going to run into problems like I described. Therefore... keep it simple-stupid.

BTW, I think we all have worked games with people at the table that are less than competent. And perhaps that's not as much of a problem at the college level, thus making two-handed foul reporting less of a problem.

Why would you be reporting 2-hands in a HS game?

If you were reporting with 2-hands in a HS game, why would you be using the wrong hands?

Why would it be confusing to the table if the person reporting with 2-hands was doing it properly?

I can see this happening. You're at a camp. They are playing HS rules and using HS mechanics. Camp supervisor tells the officials, I don't care if you use 1-hand or 2-hands when reporting fouls. Bryan decides to use 2-hands, but keeps using his left hands for the "tens' and his right hand for the "ones".

Observer to Bryan: "If you are going to use 2-hand reporting, you need to do it properly".
Bryan to observer: "Yeah, but the NFHS doesn't have a standard for 2-hand reporting."
Observer to Bryan: "Anybody using 2-hands should already know the proper way or shouldn't be doing it"
Bryan: Another "yeah but...." response

Bryan later wonders why observers stopped giving him feedback after his games.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by AremRed

This. Every level of two-handed reporting does it this way and any scorekeeper worth their salt should be able to handle two-handed reporting. Most of the time the scorekeeper knows who the foul is on anyway.

Originally Posted by APG

That's on the official for not reporting correctly.

I think the main issue in HS (which includes JV and Freshman) is that you have many scorekeepers and likely many officials that just will not get it right. You'll have some number of officials that will put the 10's number on their left hand because that is how they see it. Sometimes, you'll have scorekeepers that are barely paying attention since it is someone they could talk into doing the lower level game. I'm not against 2-hand reporting at the levels where everyone is going to be up to speed but doing it across the board is just going to create situations that can be avoided.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I think the main issue in HS (which includes JV and Freshman) is that you have many scorekeepers and likely many officials that just will not get it right. You'll have some number of officials that will put the 10's number on their left hand because that is how they see it. Sometimes, you'll have scorekeepers that are barely paying attention since it is someone they could talk into doing the lower level game. I'm not against 2-hand reporting at the levels where everyone is going to be up to speed but doing it across the board is just going to create situations that can be avoided.

I think this is the key (as well as BNR's comments). Having been a clinician with my state for almost 10 years now, I can tell you that it is hard some times to get officials to even get simple things right like how you stop the clock and we are going to expect they will be able to accurately report a foul with both hands at the freshman level? And that does not include the fact that at the freshman level, we are lucky (at least in this area) to get an adult run the table. Instead we have a student who is more concerned with their phone than actually paying attention to us when reporting. I wish I had a dollar every time I try to report in any game and have the table not paying attention to me when reporting the foul. This is more of a problem at the lower levels because the table person thinks they know who the foul is on. Many times they are right, other times they are not.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SC Official

Sure, but the reality is that a lot of states use NFHS mechanics to the letter and are not going to make changes on their own.

I don't agree that two handed reporting makes anything more complicated.

Well if I have learned anything from this board, there are a lot of states and I would suggest most that do not use NF Mechanics to a letter. There are many places that have variations or things that need to be I have always said that NF Mechanics (or any mechanics) are a guide and starting point.

I also was not giving just my position on why there are not two handed reporting, but stated the NF position or what seems to be their philosophy on all their mechanics. Most of their mechanics are easier and standard so that everyone from the brand new official to the 50 year veteran can follow.

Peace