Help Request: Inconsistency of Travel Call

[Kansas Ref]

Hope this clarifies--

A1 (male or female player--though the "action" is most egregious when done by female shooters):

1. A1 catches ball from a pass---both feet are on the court when ball is initially caught. No dribble is done.

2. A1 then hops on both feet (moving them forward from "point A" to "point A + 1)"----this is the small 'hop' I referred to initially. No dribble is done.

3. A1 then lands on both feet @ point A+1--after the small hop, then bends knees and winds up elbows in preparation for release of shot (though the feetwork is what I'm focusing on here, OK). No dribble is done.

4. A1 then jumps and releases the ball for a try (jump-shot).

hop = physically and momentarily leaves the floor for those few milliseconds--no toes touching at all.

I have observed that this action is always called a "travel" in boys/men---yet very very seldom called a "travel" in girls games. This was the key issue I requested help for. Is this a bona fide travel or no?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Kansas Ref

Hope this clarifies--

A1 (male or female player--though the "action" is most egregious when done by female shooters):

1. A1 catches ball from a pass---both feet are on the court when ball is initially caught. No dribble is done.

2. A1 then hops on both feet (moving them forward from "point A" to "point A + 1)"----this is the small 'hop' I referred to initially. No dribble is done.

3. A1 then lands on both feet @ point A+1--after the small hop, then bends knees and winds up elbows in preparation for release of shot (though the feetwork is what I'm focusing on here, OK). No dribble is done.

4. A1 then jumps and releases the ball for a try (jump-shot).

hop = physically and momentarily leaves the floor for those few milliseconds--no toes touching at all.

I have observed that this action is always called a "travel" in boys/men---yet very very seldom called a "travel" in girls games. This was the key issue I requested help for. Is this a bona fide travel or no?

You're saying that a player caught the ball with both feet on the floor, left the floor and returned them both to the floor?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Rich

You're saying that a player caught the ball with both feet on the floor, left the floor and returned them both to the floor?

Don't be so clear, Rich!

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Kansas Ref

Hope this clarifies--

A1 (male or female player--though the "action" is most egregious when done by female shooters):

1. A1 catches ball from a pass---both feet are on the court when ball is initially caught. No dribble is done.

2. A1 then hops on both feet (moving them forward from "point A" to "point A + 1)"----this is the small 'hop' I referred to initially. No dribble is done.

3. A1 then lands on both feet @ point A+1--after the small hop, then bends knees and winds up elbows in preparation for release of shot (though the feetwork is what I'm focusing on here, OK). No dribble is done.

4. A1 then jumps and releases the ball for a try (jump-shot).

hop = physically and momentarily leaves the floor for those few milliseconds--no toes touching at all.

I have observed that this action is always called a "travel" in boys/men---yet very very seldom called a "travel" in girls games. This was the key issue I requested help for. Is this a bona fide travel or no?

All you need is 2 and 3. The rest is irrelevan, especially your reference to a dribble. Just too many red herrings in your story. This is a travel, but there could be a number of reasons it's not called. Might be the catch is too close to the jump it's too difficult to tell. Might be officials are being told through evaluations not to call it. Might be they don't want to make girls cry.

I know I call it when I see it.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Adam

All you need is 2 and 3. The rest is irrelevan, especially your reference to a dribble. Just too many red herrings in your story. This is a travel, but there could be a number of reasons it's not called. Might be the catch is too close to the jump it's too difficult to tell. Might be officials are being told through evaluations not to call it. Might be they don't want to make girls cry.

I know I call it when I see it.

Ha,ha...when the girls start crying they don't stop...(I think u have daughter too). I don't have any issues seeing travel....BUT, as I have said before, it doesn't do the game any good if I'm the only one calling it. As a crew, we've got to get the travels going around a defender and in the post. The millimeter hop on perimeter doesn't give an advantage but it is travel. I've told kids in warmups not to take the hop. That's usually worked for me.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BigCat

I've told kids in warmups not to take the hop.

With high school girls, I am more likely to see this in warmups, but it doesn't seem to carry over into the actual game, even when I'm looking for it. Very odd. Very perplexing.

[BlueDevilRef]

36 posts to figure out what we all knew. What was described is a travel and it doesn't get called for any number of different reasons.

[Kansas Ref]

@BDR: we dissect and critique all manner of violations, interpretational gray-areas, and asundry on here... what do you expect from officiating "geeks" like us... ?
How's your off-season reffing going? I pray that your men's wreck leagues reffing is going OK.

[Kansas Ref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Don't be so clear, Rich!

* hey Rick & Camron: I forgot to mention that A1 had her anti-gravity Nike hyperdunk shoes on.

[mickhickva]

I've seen this happen hundreds of times over the years ....its is liken to a "crow hop" that baseball outfielders use to create more momentum for a long throw after a catch or they field a batted ball hit to them

I've also seen it used by basketball player to start a dribble move after a catch ...this I always call traveling

However....
As for shooting ...... My mind's eye catches the movement but I rarely call it anymore (I will if they don't go thru with the shot --- and I'm not describing a jump stop but a catch and a movement-- while holding the ball after a catch...)

But I've not observed a gender difference

[Mregor]

Don't make this harder than it needs to be. Concentrate on the pivot and that will tell you if its a travel or not. Just like any other travel situation, you need to know whatth pivot foot is. If it is lifted and returned while in control of the ball, it's a travel. More times than not in the situation you are describing, the hop and the catch is one motion and the pivot isn't touching the floor when the catch/gather is made which makes it a legal move. That's all there is to it. Make that determination and move on to more important stuff.

When I was at Verne Harris camp years ago, this play was discussed. Verne's answer was he'd rather miss a travel call than call a good move a travel. If this is so prevalent in your area, what are the top officials calling. If it's prevalent, I'd say it's probably not a travel. Don't try to be the only Sherriff in town to male this call unless you are content with the games you are working.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BlueDevilRef

36 posts to figure out what we all knew. What was described is a travel and it doesn't get called for any number of different reasons.

Not really, I've had a lot of coaches complain about what is essentially a jump stop because it wasn't done off a dribble. The OP's completely incorrect assessment why the jump stop rule didn't apply led me to believe he was doing the same thing.

His further clarification after my questions tells me his previous references to the jump stop rule, while utterly and totally wrong, were simply irrelevant to what he was seeing.

[Kansas Ref]

Originally Posted by Mregor

When I was at Verne Harris camp years ago, this play was discussed. Verne's answer was he'd rather miss a travel call than call a good move a travel. If this is so prevalent in your area, what are the top officials calling. If it's prevalent, I'd say it's probably not a travel. Don't try to be the only Sherriff in town to male this call unless you are content with the games you are working.

*OK, but at this juncture we are not really concerned about "what top officials in my area are calling" ---but moreso in the correctness or incorrectness of the call. I think a so-called "top official" can also be prone to errors no?

Interesting comment from the camp you went to though--in terms of the clinician telling you'all to pass on a travel; reminds me of how at times some refs call "travel" on a simple 'euro-step' layup move.

Not sure of how you are conjecturing on whether or not this call is made will impact my varsity schedule tho?

[Kansas Ref]

Originally Posted by mickhickva

I've also seen it used by basketball player to start a dribble move after a catch ...this I always call traveling

However....
As for shooting ...... My mind's eye catches the movement but I rarely call it anymore (I will if they don't go thru with the shot --- and I'm not describing a jump stop but a catch and a movement-- while holding the ball after a catch...)

But I've not observed a gender difference

*In contrast, I have mostly observed it due to gender--but ok, thanks for you input.