Help Request: Inconsistency of Travel Call

[Kansas Ref]

I had been meaning to pose this question to forum--as I had observed this to occur frequently in "girls/women" games and it was not called--could someone here pls lend some insight / experience.

Sitch: Female player (A1) receives a pass coming off an elbow area screen, and prepares to shoot a jumpshot; however, prior to releasing the shot A1 does a small hop step without taking a dribble. All of this is part of A1's "gathering" process--then A1 shoots the shot.

Is this "gathering" process a travel violation? If not, then when a similar type of "gathering" occurs in boys/men games it is called a travel. I have yet to observe that it is called a travel in girls/women games--at neither the NF, NCAA, nor WNBA levels.

Which led me to wonder: do we as an officials community tend to treat such a 'gathering' step with bias--i.e., allowing it on the female side, yet penalizing it on the male side? I can honestly say that in this past NF season when I observed it to occur I did not whistle it a violation--neither did my partners. OK, so I admit I have become an "enabler" to this issue.

There are at least four other types of biases that inhere with girls/women games on various violations that are also not called---but let us focus first on the above-cited one first.

Thanks in advance for any input/guidance.

[BlueDevilRef]

I'd like to hear the other four biases. As far as the OP, I dunno. I haven't really paid that much attention. I call the obvious travels and don't call the ones that aren't.

Man, we talk a LOT about travels around here.

[Kansas Ref]

@ BD Ref: ok thanks for your input--the 'gathering' motion is quite obvious anytime you watch a female player prep for a jumper, I am beginning to think that calling it a violation has been "lost in the ether'' due to our collective enabling of it-- and yes, 'travel' call discrepancies are a common item of discourse.

[bob jenkins]

I haven't noticed a particular difference, but I haven't been looking for it or logging it either.

When it's a travel, it's called. When it's a form of a (legal) jump stop, it isn't.

[Kansas Ref]

@ BR_the "legal jumpstop" consideration is not in effect here as there was no dribbling action that preceded the jump shot. In the case I'm describing the series of actions is: catch ball, make a small hop step [i.e., 'gather'], then shoot. Thanks for you input tho.

[jpgc99]

Originally Posted by Kansas Ref

@ BR_the "legal jumpstop" consideration is not in effect here as there was no dribbling action that preceded the jump shot. In the case I'm describing the series of actions is: catch ball, make a small hop step [i.e., 'gather'], then shoot. Thanks for you input tho.

You cannot catch the ball then hop. I don't know what you mean by 'gather', but you can't gather the ball once it has already been caught.

What you are describing is a travel.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Kansas Ref

@ BR_the "legal jumpstop" consideration is not in effect here as there was no dribbling action that preceded the jump shot. In the case I'm describing the series of actions is: catch ball, make a small hop step [i.e., 'gather'], then shoot. Thanks for you input tho.

You can "jump stop" while MOVING or dribbling. No one catches the ball with only one foot on the floor while not moving.

If the player catches the ball with both feet on the floor and then jumps and lands and then shoots -- yes, that's traveling. I see it called all the time. I didn't think that was what you were asking.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Kansas Ref

@ BR_the "legal jumpstop" consideration is not in effect here as there was no dribbling action that preceded the jump shot. In the case I'm describing the series of actions is: catch ball, make a small hop step [i.e., 'gather'], then shoot. Thanks for you input tho.

This is just not true. The rule is the same whether coming off a dribble or catching a pass. I think we need to know that it's actually a travel before addressing why it's not being called. Based on what's been described, I question the rules knowledge of those who are saying it's a travel they just don't have the guts to call.

What exactly does this move entail and why is it a travel?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by jpgc99

The way I viewed the play based on the description was a player with two feet on the floor catches a pass. After the catch of the ball, they then step with one foot, then step with the other, and shoot. Essentially the first step establishes pivot foot, then once that foot is lifted and set down we have a travel.

Of course if they are stepping into this as they are receiving the ball, this is probably legal but based on what foot becomes the pivot. I watch how players receive passes and step into shots during warmups to help get me engaged.

I would have thought so except for this completely inaccurate post.

Originally Posted by Kansas Ref

@ BR_the "legal jumpstop" consideration is not in effect here as there was no dribbling action that preceded the jump shot. In the case I'm describing the series of actions is: catch ball, make a small hop step [i.e., 'gather'], then shoot. Thanks for you input tho.

[Raymond]

Yep, as the players get older they'll be taught to step into the catch instead of catching and then stepping.

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[Pantherdreams]

Lots of variables here:

- I don't see it called more in guys games than girls here. If anything the other way but I think its because guys can be more dynamic on the catch so they can muddle the timing of actually trapping the catch and leaving the floor. That may be related to the discrepancy your seeing in the distance covered on the hop and what officials notice?

- When have they actually caught and secured the ball it may be in your judgement the catch is finalized and then they hop it may be the judgement of other officials they are still securing the catch when the hop starts.

- How many feet are on the ground post catch and pre jump. Technically if only 1 foot is in contact with the ground when the catch in finalized and then they can hop to 2 and shoot if they don't pivot.

[crosscountry55]

In Kansas Ref's defense, I have seen and observed this same inconsistency. And it has bothered me, too. I know it's technically a travel, but it's not obvious and generally no one from the opposing bench is screaming "travel, travel!" (probably because they have girls that do it, too), so my tendency is to let it go. Gosh does the place go nuts when you waive off a 3 from the corner because of this call. And it's like three seconds....once you call it, the Pandora's Box is open.

On the other hand, we're probably re-enforcing bad habits in girls' basketball.

This would be a good candidate for an NFHS POE. But it won't be a POE if the committee isn't concerned, and I don't think they are.

[BlueDevilRef]

36 posts to figure out what we all knew. What was described is a travel and it doesn't get called for any number of different reasons.

[Kansas Ref]

@BDR: we dissect and critique all manner of violations, interpretational gray-areas, and asundry on here... what do you expect from officiating "geeks" like us... ?
How's your off-season reffing going? I pray that your men's wreck leagues reffing is going OK.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BlueDevilRef

36 posts to figure out what we all knew. What was described is a travel and it doesn't get called for any number of different reasons.

Not really, I've had a lot of coaches complain about what is essentially a jump stop because it wasn't done off a dribble. The OP's completely incorrect assessment why the jump stop rule didn't apply led me to believe he was doing the same thing.

His further clarification after my questions tells me his previous references to the jump stop rule, while utterly and totally wrong, were simply irrelevant to what he was seeing.