NCAAM 10-second violation application...

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BoomerSooner

I get that and am on board with that. But what about the 10-second count? When does that technically start? A1 inbounding after a made shot. The pass is deflected by B1 (shot clock starts), ball bounces across court for 2 seconds when it is finally picked up by A2? Does the 10-second count start when the pass was deflected by B1 or when it was picked up by A2?

Then you do not get it, because it was stated that the violation takes place when the shot clock read 20 (not including timeout or any other exception to the rule using the shot clock). When anyone touches the ball starts the shot clock.

This was kind of made clear earlier in this thread.

Peace

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Then you do not get it, because it was stated that the violation takes place when the shot clock read 20 (not including timeout or any other exception to the rule using the shot clock). When anyone touches the ball starts the shot clock.

This was kind of made clear earlier in this thread.

Peace

He changed the play to a FC throwin by A, touched by B in A's FC and retrieved by A2 in A's BC. The shot clock starts when the ball is touched by B. The 10 count will not start until the ball is touched in the BC.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BigCat

He changed the play to a FC throwin by A, touched by B in A's FC and retrieved by A2 in A's BC. The shot clock starts when the ball is touched by B. The 10 count will not start until the ball is touched in the BC.

My response was to his comments to me. Nothing had changed at that time.

Peace

[BoomerSooner]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Then you do not get it, because it was stated that the violation takes place when the shot clock read 20 (not including timeout or any other exception to the rule using the shot clock). When anyone touches the ball starts the shot clock.

This was kind of made clear earlier in this thread.

Peace

I get the violation occurs when the clock reads 20 if the shot clock and the 10-second count start simultaneously. When I stated "I get that and am on board with that", I was referring to the shot clock starting when the ball is legally touched by any player. That is pretty much a no exceptions point that I get.

My point is that the 10-second count and shot clock don't always start at the same time. The crux of my confusion is whether or not the 10-second count starts against team A when the ball is touched by any player (A or B) in A's backcourt. Is the simple touching of the ball by A or B in A's backcourt when A has team control sufficient to start the count. If A has established frontcourt status with the ball, does a pass deflected by B into the backcourt that is subsequently touched (not possessed) by B cause the 10-second count to start or does A have to touch it in the backcourt? If you say A has to touch it before starting a 10-second count, then how can it be that the 10-second count starts when B deflects a pass from A while inbounding following a made basket?

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by BoomerSooner

I get the violation occurs when the clock reads 20 if the shot clock and the 10-second count start simultaneously. When I stated "I get that and am on board with that", I was referring to the shot clock starting when the ball is legally touched by any player. That is pretty much a no exceptions point that I get.

My point is that the 10-second count and shot clock don't always start at the same time. The crux of my confusion is whether or not the 10-second count starts against team A when the ball is touched by any player (A or B) in A's backcourt. Is the simple touching of the ball by A or B in A's backcourt when A has team control sufficient to start the count. If A has established frontcourt status with the ball, does a pass deflected by B into the backcourt that is subsequently touched (not possessed) by B cause the 10-second count to start or does A have to touch it in the backcourt? If you say A has to touch it before starting a 10-second count, then how can it be that the 10-second count starts when B deflects a pass from A while inbounding following a made basket?

Your getting things complicated by changing the play back and forth. Also, forget team control for the moment.

1. A throw in from A's backcourt is tipped by B1 in A's BC. The shot clock and the -10 second count for A starts on Bs touch. A player legally touched the ball in A's BC. When the clock hits 20-violation. Even if seconds went by before A actually touched ball. Do you have that down?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BoomerSooner

My point is that the 10-second count and shot clock don't always start at the same time.

It does in college. That is all you need to know.

Originally Posted by BoomerSooner

The crux of my confusion is whether or not the 10-second count starts against team A when the ball is touched by any player (A or B) in A's backcourt. Is the simple touching of the ball by A or B in A's backcourt when A has team control sufficient to start the count. If A has established frontcourt status with the ball, does a pass deflected by B into the backcourt that is subsequently touched (not possessed) by B cause the 10-second count to start or does A have to touch it in the backcourt? If you say A has to touch it before starting a 10-second count, then how can it be that the 10-second count starts when B deflects a pass from A while inbounding following a made basket?

Again the college rule is different. If the ball starts in the FC and goes to the BC, you have a different issue don't you think? You would not be using the shot clock and it reading 20 as the standard now would you?

We can either count with our arm like we always did or note the time on the clock when the violation would take place.

Peace

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

We can either count with our arm like we always did or note the time on the clock when the violation would take place.

Peace

Not sure I would advocate using a visible count on this type of play. The only listed exception to using the shot clock for backcourt counts is when there is no shot clock.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by johnny d

Not sure I would advocate using a visible count on this type of play. The only listed exception to using the shot clock for backcourt counts is when there is no shot clock.

I have talked with several individuals about this and there are some that would and others that wouldn't and others that would. Again, we are talking about a rare situation. Not many times where the shot clock starts then you have a gap and the ball in the backcourt for the 10 second count. Very rare and I have yet to see that situation where the ball would get stuck there for some time.

Peace

[BoomerSooner]

This is where I was trying to go with the conversation and appreciate everyone's input. I don't have any experience working NCAA games and thus my reading of the rule book is the basis of my knowledge. I don't have the benefit of having the same background that tells me how to interpret what is written that I was looking for from those of you do have that experience.

I agree that the shot clock and 10-second count will start simultaneously the vast majority of the time and that is where this thread started. I may have been better served by starting a new thread as I was wanting to learn when to start the count in situations other than the basic A is inbounding the ball after a made basket and how to handle it when they don't start simultaneously. In the end, I think what led me to complicate this was the additional language in 9.10 that covers when to start the 10-second count despite 2.9 indicating that the shot clock is utilized to administer the 10-second count. Thank you all again for the feedback.