Score book shenanigans

[Rich]

Originally Posted by ballgame99

One starter for the visitor was marked wrong. #35 was marked as a starter, coach wanted #32. They had it right in their book, but it got copied over wrong. The R (my partner) had head coach look it over pregame and he signed off on it. Table notifies us pre-toss, Visitor coach whines but puts #35 in and takes #32 out. My partner issues a T! I notify him that the coach should be allowed to switch them out with no penalty. He doesn't take my advice. So now coach wants to go ahead and start #32 since he has to pay the penalty. I allow it. My partner informs me and coach that isn't allowable and makes #35 start. I looked it up after the game to make sure; Case play 3.2.2 clearly says the starters can be switched out without penalty, and the only time there is a penalty for this is if coach wants to go ahead and start #32 despite her not being marked as a starter. I did not always have coaches look over the book, but I will be doing so from now on for sure.

Why would you have a coach inspect the book? Cause your partner didn't know the rules?

[BryanV21]

Take a look at the visitor book.

If the correct starter is marked there, you have evidence that it was a copying error. Allow the change in the home/official book... without penalty... and start the game.

If the visitor book is the same as the home/official book, which has a different starter, then move on to a tech to make a change or let the team switch the starter to what's in the book without penalty.

You don't have to be a hard-ass about everything.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

...
You don't have to be a hard-ass about everything.

This has nothing to do with being a hard ass. The crew chief kicked every rule associated with this situation.

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[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

This has nothing to do with being a hard ass. The crew chief kicked every rule associated with this situation.

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I was making a general statement about dealing with some situations. I don't believe the rule book allows officials to use the visitor book to prove that it was an error in copying the visiting team's starters into the home/official book. But if a situation like this came up, and I can see the visitor book had the "right" starters, then I'd let it go.

Yes, in the case brought up in the OP, the official messed up.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

I was making a general statement about dealing with some situations. I don't believe the rule book allows officials to use the visitor book to prove that it was an error in copying the visiting team's starters into the home/official book. But if a situation like this came up, and I can see the visitor book had the "right" starters, then I'd let it go.

Yes, in the case brought up in the OP, the official messed up.

Actually, it does. The coach is only required to provide the information to the official scorer. That's it. 10-1-1

In the OP, the coach provided the correct information, so there should have been no penalty for the scorer to correct his own mistake.

2-11-11 "...A bookkeeping mistake may be corrected at any time until the referee approves the final score...."

This is a bookkeeping mistake and should have been corrected without penalty.

[twocentsworth]

This is EXACTLY why you should have a coach from each team review the official scorebook (for correct player #'s AND correct starters) and require their initials as evidence of their approval.

This very easily removes the responsibility from the official scorer and game officials of any mistakes being made. Once the coach approves the scorebook, THAT is when the info. has been provided to the official scorer - there is NO POSSIBILITY for scorer error...

[bob jenkins]

100% disagree. The coach doesn't really have time to look at the list in detail just before the game -- s/he has more important things to do.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by twocentsworth

This is EXACTLY why you should have a coach from each team review the official scorebook (for correct player #'s AND correct starters) and require their initials as evidence of their approval.

This very easily removes the responsibility from the official scorer and game officials of any mistakes being made. Once the coach approves the scorebook, THAT is when the info. has been provided to the official scorer - there is NO POSSIBILITY for scorer error...

False. When the coach hands a roster of all players and marked starters to the official scorers as soon as he gets on the floor 20 minutes before game time, he has done his duty. No need for him to review how it got copied into the scorebook.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by twocentsworth

This is EXACTLY why you should have a coach from each team review the official scorebook (for correct player #'s AND correct starters) and require their initials as evidence of their approval.

This very easily removes the responsibility from the official scorer and game officials of any mistakes being made. Once the coach approves the scorebook, THAT is when the info. has been provided to the official scorer - there is NO POSSIBILITY for scorer error...

None of this is right. Do you have a rules book?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by twocentsworth

This is EXACTLY why you should have a coach from each team review the official scorebook (for correct player #'s AND correct starters) and require their initials as evidence of their approval.

This very easily removes the responsibility from the official scorer and game officials of any mistakes being made. Once the coach approves the scorebook, THAT is when the info. has been provided to the official scorer - there is NO POSSIBILITY for scorer error...

At the risk of piling on, this couldn't be more wrong.

There is no provision in the rules that renders the coach responsible for bookkeeping errors just because you had him review the book before the game.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by Adam

Actually, it does. The coach is only required to provide the information to the official scorer. That's it. 10-1-1

In the OP, the coach provided the correct information, so there should have been no penalty for the scorer to correct his own mistake.

2-11-11 "...A bookkeeping mistake may be corrected at any time until the referee approves the final score...."

This is a bookkeeping mistake and should have been corrected without penalty.

So what I laid out is stated in the rule book. I don't recall the rule book saying anything regarding the visitor/unofficial book, let alone it being used to prove the home/official book received a different starting lineup.

Are you just trying to be argumentative with me? I don't get it.

[SNIPERBBB]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

So what I laid out is stated in the rule book. I don't recall the rule book saying anything regarding the visitor/unofficial book, let alone it being used to prove the home/official book received a different starting lineup.

Are you just trying to be argumentative with me? I don't get it.

The official book has to get the names and number from somewhere, they don't just come up with the information from thin air. It most likely came froe the visitor book unless the coach provided the scorer with a different roster.