Score book shenanigans

[ballgame99]

One starter for the visitor was marked wrong. #35 was marked as a starter, coach wanted #32. They had it right in their book, but it got copied over wrong. The R (my partner) had head coach look it over pregame and he signed off on it. Table notifies us pre-toss, Visitor coach whines but puts #35 in and takes #32 out. My partner issues a T! I notify him that the coach should be allowed to switch them out with no penalty. He doesn't take my advice. So now coach wants to go ahead and start #32 since he has to pay the penalty. I allow it. My partner informs me and coach that isn't allowable and makes #35 start. I looked it up after the game to make sure; Case play 3.2.2 clearly says the starters can be switched out without penalty, and the only time there is a penalty for this is if coach wants to go ahead and start #32 despite her not being marked as a starter. I did not always have coaches look over the book, but I will be doing so from now on for sure.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by ballgame99

One starter for the visitor was marked wrong. #35 was marked as a starter, coach wanted #32. They had it right in their book, but it got copied over wrong. The R (my partner) had head coach look it over pregame and he signed off on it. Table notifies us pre-toss, Visitor coach whines but puts #35 in and takes #32 out. My partner issues a T! I notify him that the coach should be allowed to switch them out with no penalty. He doesn't take my advice. So now coach wants to go ahead and start #32 since he has to pay the penalty. I allow it. My partner informs me and coach that isn't allowable and makes #35 start. I looked it up after the game to make sure; Case play 3.2.2 clearly says the starters can be switched out without penalty, and the only time there is a penalty for this is if coach wants to go ahead and start #32 despite her not being marked as a starter. I did not always have coaches look over the book, but I will be doing so from now on for sure.

If it is a transcription error by the scorers table, it is changed and no penalty is enforced.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by ballgame99

One starter for the visitor was marked wrong. #35 was marked as a starter, coach wanted #32. They had it right in their book, but it got copied over wrong. The R (my partner) had head coach look it over pregame and he signed off on it. Table notifies us pre-toss, Visitor coach whines but puts #35 in and takes #32 out. My partner issues a T! I notify him that the coach should be allowed to switch them out with no penalty. He doesn't take my advice. So now coach wants to go ahead and start #32 since he has to pay the penalty. I allow it. My partner informs me and coach that isn't allowable and makes #35 start. I looked it up after the game to make sure; Case play 3.2.2 clearly says the starters can be switched out without penalty, and the only time there is a penalty for this is if coach wants to go ahead and start #32 despite her not being marked as a starter. I did not always have coaches look over the book, but I will be doing so from now on for sure.

Your partner couldn't have been more wrong, at every turn.

1. it's not a T. He provided correct information which is all that is required, scorer transcribed it wrong. Don't punish the visiting coach when the home scorer screws up.

2. Even if the coach did it wrong, it's EITHER a T or the coach starts the player marked. The T is for changing starters.

Your partner needs to go over the freaking rules.

I never have coaches look over the book, because it doesn't change anything. In this case, the coach should have been allowed to use the starter he had marked.

Again, don't penalize a coach because the scorer can't read.

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by OKREF

If it is a transcription error by the scorers table, it is changed and no penalty is enforced.

I agree. It sounds from the OP like the visiting team provided the correct information and the home book transcribed it incorrectly.

[deecee]

Cluster#$@# at all angles.

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by Adam

I never have coaches look over the book, because it doesn't change anything. In this case, the coach should have been allowed to use the starter he had marked.

I don't have them look either, for the exact same reason. If you have them look it over after the 10 minute mark (which at least in my area is almost all you ever see for warmup time because they're trying to stay on schedule), then there is nothing they can change, so why worry about it?

[ballgame99]

Originally Posted by OKREF

If it is a transcription error by the scorers table, it is changed and no penalty is enforced.

I like this approach much better, but is this in the case/rule book? I guess the risk would be some coach changing his mind at the last minute and blaming the table. Agree that none of this is a big deal, but you know how bent out of shape some folks get about this stuff.

[so cal lurker]

Originally Posted by ballgame99

I like this approach much better, but is this in the case/rule book? I guess the risk would be some coach changing his mind at the last minute and blaming the table. Agree that none of this is a big deal, but you know how bent out of shape some folks get about this stuff.

Well, what is it that the rule book requires the coach to do at risk of being punished?

[deecee]

Originally Posted by ballgame99

I like this approach much better, but is this in the case/rule book? I guess the risk would be some coach changing his mind at the last minute and blaming the table. Agree that none of this is a big deal, but you know how bent out of shape some folks get about this stuff.

The coach only has to provide his roster and starters. If there is proof that what was provided was copied erroneously then we aren't going to penalize a coach.

Usually you ask to see what was provided to the home book.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by frezer11

I don't have them look either, for the exact same reason. If you have them look it over after the 10 minute mark (which at least in my area is almost all you ever see for warmup time because they're trying to stay on schedule), then there is nothing they can change, so why worry about it?

Not only that, but the coach is, by rule, not responsible for a scoring error even if you force him to sign the book.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by deecee

The coach only has to provide his roster and starters. If there is proof that what was provided was copied erroneously then we aren't going to penalize a coach.

Usually you ask to see what was provided to the home bookofficial scorekeeper.

I consider the home book to be the book being kept on the home team's bench, if there is in fact one. What really matters is what's given to the official scorekeeper.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by ballgame99

One starter for the visitor was marked wrong. #35 was marked as a starter, coach wanted #32. They had it right in their book, but it got copied over wrong. The R (my partner) had head coach look it over pregame and he signed off on it. Table notifies us pre-toss, Visitor coach whines but puts #35 in and takes #32 out. My partner issues a T! I notify him that the coach should be allowed to switch them out with no penalty. He doesn't take my advice. So now coach wants to go ahead and start #32 since he has to pay the penalty. I allow it. My partner informs me and coach that isn't allowable and makes #35 start. I looked it up after the game to make sure; Case play 3.2.2 clearly says the starters can be switched out without penalty, and the only time there is a penalty for this is if coach wants to go ahead and start #32 despite her not being marked as a starter. I did not always have coaches look over the book, but I will be doing so from now on for sure.

Why would you have a coach inspect the book? Cause your partner didn't know the rules?

[BryanV21]

Take a look at the visitor book.

If the correct starter is marked there, you have evidence that it was a copying error. Allow the change in the home/official book... without penalty... and start the game.

If the visitor book is the same as the home/official book, which has a different starter, then move on to a tech to make a change or let the team switch the starter to what's in the book without penalty.

You don't have to be a hard-ass about everything.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

I consider the home book to be the book being kept on the home team's bench, if there is in fact one. What really matters is what's given to the official scorekeeper.

In reality the home book 99.99% of the time IS the official scorekeeper.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

...
You don't have to be a hard-ass about everything.

This has nothing to do with being a hard ass. The crew chief kicked every rule associated with this situation.

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