Sliding on the floor -- NCAA-M

[Geof]

Originally Posted by Dad

There's two, but I can only think of one verbatim right now.

Under traveling or not it says: Once A1 is no longer sliding, he/she may not roll over.

4.44.5 SITUATION B: A1 dives for a loose ball and slides after gaining control. A1 is in a position either on his/her back or stomach. What can A1 do without *violating?

RULING: A1 may pass, shoot, start a dribble or call a time-out. Once A1 has the ball and is no longer sliding, he/she may not roll over. If flat on his/her back, A1 may sit up without violating. Any attempt to get to the feet is traveling unless A1 is dribbling. It is also traveling if A1 puts the ball on the floor, then rises and is first to touch the ball. (4-44-5b)

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by Geof

4.44.5 SITUATION B: A1 dives for a loose ball and slides after gaining control. A1 is in a position either on his/her back or stomach. What can A1 do without *violating?

RULING: A1 may pass, shoot, start a dribble or call a time-out. Once A1 has the ball and is no longer sliding, he/she may not roll over. If flat on his/her back, A1 may sit up without violating. Any attempt to get to the feet is traveling unless A1 is dribbling. It is also traveling if A1 puts the ball on the floor, then rises and is first to touch the ball. (4-44-5b)

I guess I don't necessarily agree that this clause gives A1 permission to roll over with the ball. I mean, let's say they grab the ball and slide first and then roll. Once they start rolling, they are no longer sliding.

[SNIPERBBB]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

I guess I don't necessarily agree that this clause gives A1 permission to roll over with the ball. I mean, let's say they grab the ball and slide first and then roll. Once they start rolling, they are no longer sliding.

If there is still forward momentum, they are still sliding.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

If there is still forward momentum, they are still sliding.

Not if they're rolling. YOu're either sliding or you're rolling. I don't see how you can do both at the same time. I'd be interested in seeing video of someone doing both.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

Not if they're rolling. YOu're either sliding or you're rolling. I don't see how you can do both at the same time. I'd be interested in seeing video of someone doing both.

If rolling as part of the dive were to be disallowed, there would be no conditional preceding the prohibition on rolling over in the cited case. Instead, it would have been a blanket statement.

[SNIPERBBB]

It is possible to do...just improbable. But they would still be sliding if they still have momentum.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

If rolling as part of the dive were to be disallowed, there would be no conditional preceding the prohibition on rolling over in the cited case. Instead, it would have been a blanket statement.

If all we did was look at the wording in that play, under ordinary rules of construction rolling would not be allowed. The play has a specific list of what you can do: shoot,pass,call timeout...Under rules of construction, when there a list of things permissible, those are the only things you can do. The theory is when drafters make a list they put everything permissible on it.

When they say a player can't roll over after he stops sliding, that's all it means. Statutory construction rules don't allow us to take that sentence and add to the list. I don't think the case writers thought deeply about it though.

Personally, If momentum makes the player roll I believe it is legal. However, if a player is sliding and rolls on purpose, say to pass the ball, I will call a violation even if he is still sliding. The momentum has to cause the roll for me.

The NCAAM case play actually says rolling due to momentum is ok.

[Eastshire]

Rolling while sliding is allowed by exception.

For example, if you find a sign that says "No Parking After 5 PM," it is clear that parking is allowed before 5 PM. Otherwise the sign would simple say "No Parking."

Here we have a sign that says "No Rolling After Sliding Has Stopped." So clearly rolling while sliding is allowed or the sign would say "No Rolling."

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

I guess I don't necessarily agree that this clause gives A1 permission to roll over with the ball. I mean, let's say they grab the ball and slide first and then roll. Once they start rolling, they are no longer sliding.

I agree with your opinion on the sliding rule. If they roll over while sliding, they are gaining a big advantage. I don't think they meant to imply that while you're sliding you can roll over, even though taken literally, that is what it reads.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

I guess I don't necessarily agree that this clause gives A1 permission to roll over with the ball. I mean, let's say they grab the ball and slide first and then roll. Once they start rolling, they are no longer sliding.

The point in that case is that they can't roll after they stop moving from the initial dive. The hustle to get the loose ball, and all that comes with it, are being encouraged. Slide, tumble, roll....it doesn't matter. Once they settle, the limitations are in effect.

[Geof]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

The point in that case is that they can't roll after they stop moving from the initial dive. The hustle to get the loose ball, and all that comes with it, are being encouraged. Slide, tumble, roll....it doesn't matter. Once they settle, the limitations are in effect.

This too, is my takeaway. I can't find any other wording in the rule book or casebook that indicates otherwise. I other words, I haven't found anything that sets limitations on actions during the initial slide and subsequent momentum. Only once that player is at rest do the limitations come into place.