Sliding on the floor -- NCAA-M

[bainsey]

I sat behind the table of an NCAA (D-III) men's game at the university where I teach. I only know the NFHS rule book, so this exchange confused me a bit:

Loose ball on the floor. V-1 dives for it, grabs the ball, and his momentum causes him to slide. The H bench (and much of the crowd) wants a travel. V-1 passes the ball to V-2, and we play on. The H bench is still protesting.

H HC: "He can't slide with the ball like that!"
Official: (shakes head) "He didn't slide!"

Not sure why the official said that. There was clearly a slide, but does it matter? My question is, isn't the NCAA-M rule regarding this the same as that in NFHS?

[bob jenkins]

Same rule.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by bainsey

H HC: "He can't slide with the ball like that!"
Official: (shakes head) "He didn't slide!"

Sounds as though the official didn't know the rule, either.

[Camron Rust]

Yep, same rule in in both.....slide, tumble, roll are all legal as part of the dive for the ball. Once the momentum from the dive ceases, a roll or a slide becomes a travel. I know some officials that insist otherwise and will call an initial slide/roll a travel but the rules/cases do not support their interpretation.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Yep, same rule in in both.....slide, tumble, roll are all legal as part of the dive for the ball. Once the momentum from the dive ceases, a roll or a slide becomes a travel. I know some officials that insist otherwise and will call an initial slide/roll a travel but the rules/cases do not support their interpretation.

I don't have my books with me or I'd look it up, but I'm not sure I agree with your interpretation. I may be wrong.

It was my understanding that when diving for a loose ball, if your momentum causes you to slide, then there's no call. However, I thought that any roll, slide, or tumble from front to back or vice versa would be a travel.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

I don't have my books with me or I'd look it up, but I'm not sure I agree with your interpretation. I may be wrong.

It was my understanding that when diving for a loose ball, if your momentum causes you to slide, then there's no call. However, I thought that any roll, slide, or tumble from front to back or vice versa would be a travel.

You are wrong. If the roll is part of the momentum, it's allowed.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

You are wrong. If the roll is part of the momentum, it's allowed.

Do you care to cite a rule or casebook play which makes this clear?

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Again, I'd like to see what it looks like when someone is rolling and sliding at the same time.

Once the roll begins, you are no longer sliding. I have not seen anything that says rolling caused by momentum is allowed.

If you want to use cars for an example, how about this one. A car is speeding towards a cliff. The driver locks up the brakes and starts skidding. At the edge of the cliff, the car turns on its side and then rolls down the embankment. Is the car skidding down the embankment or rolling down the embankment?


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[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

Again, I'd like to see what it looks like when someone is rolling and sliding at the same time.

Once the roll begins, you are no longer sliding. I have not seen anything that says rolling caused by momentum is allowed.

If you want to use cars for an example, how about this one. A car is speeding towards a cliff. The driver locks up the brakes and starts skidding. At the edge of the cliff, the car turns on its side and then rolls down the embankment. Is the car skidding down the embankment or rolling down the embankment?


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Since it was all caused by the speeding / locking of the brakes, then it doesn't matter what you call it, it's "legal."

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

Again, I'd like to see what it looks like when someone is rolling and sliding at the same time.

Once the roll begins, you are no longer sliding. I have not seen anything that says rolling caused by momentum is allowed.

If you want to use cars for an example, how about this one. A car is speeding towards a cliff. The driver locks up the brakes and starts skidding. At the edge of the cliff, the car turns on its side and then rolls down the embankment. Is the car skidding down the embankment or rolling down the embankment?


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Player is running down court. Ball is ahead of him and to his left. He is sweaty. Dives forward left for ball. Body torqued. Momentum and sweat cause him to slide and roll same time.

You won't find anything more in NFHS but NCAAM has case play saying if momentum causes it -legal.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by BigCat

Player is running down court. Ball is ahead of him and to his left. He is sweaty. Dives forward left for ball. Body torqued. Momentum and sweat cause him to slide and roll same time.

You won't find anything more in NFHS but NCAAM has case play saying if momentum causes it -legal.

I will concede that in NCAA-M, there is the case play that has been cited that makes the roll legal if it's caused by the momentum from the dive.

But I'm still not convinced that in NFHS that it is. In my opinion, a roll and a slide are two different things, and once you've started to roll, you've stopped sliding.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

I will concede that in NCAA-M, there is the case play that has been cited that makes the roll legal if it's caused by the momentum from the dive.

But I'm still not convinced that in NFHS that it is. In my opinion, a roll and a slide are two different things, and once you've started to roll, you've stopped sliding.

They are two different things that can be done at the same time. Momentum is the key. Not a conscious choice to roll away from a defender while sliding. Momentum of your dive and slide makes you do it.

Again, you won't find anything else in NFHS. The thought behind allowing sliding is that you can't really control the slide. When you stop you have control of your body. No rolling. If momentum causes the slide and roll the player isn't under control at that point either. Allow it. Last thing I will say is I have the scars to prove you can slide and roll at same time. The kid who gives up his body for the team and dives for the ball gets a gold star from me. Not a travel call. Good luck to you.