A Touchy Subject ...

[BillyMac]

From Ref60 Home of "60 Seconds of Officiating" website, article on basket interference:

A Touchy Subject | Ref 60

Post by zackman, December 29, 2015 at 8:15 pm:
It is not always goaltending when a shot is touched while on the way down – If a layup (or bank shot) is one it’s way down, it can still be legally blocked provided the ball is not yet above the cylinder.

Post by BillyMac, January 30, 2016 at 1:39 pm:
On most layups, the ball is going up immediately after it contacts the backboard. It is legal to pin the ball against the backboard if it still on the way up, and is not in the imaginary cylinder above the basket. It is goaltending if, after a layup, the ball is on it’s way down, and is not in the cylinder.

I'm (BillyMac, that's me) right, right? (NFHS rules)

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

A Touchy Subject | Ref 60

zackman December 29, 2015 at 8:15 pm
It is not always goaltending when a shot is touched while on the way down – If a layup (or bank shot) is one it’s way down, it can still be legally blocked provided the ball is not yet above the cylinder.

This statement is just not true.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Adam

This statement is just not true.

I can't believe that the creators of the website left the erroneous post on the site since December 28, 2015 without correcting it. That would never happen here on the Forum. We'd be all over that like white on rice. Like ugly on an ape. Like a duck on a Junebug.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Adam

This statement is just not true.

What did he say that was untrue? To have as shot on it's way down, the ball has to have a chance to go in and has to be completely above the rim in order to have a violation for GT.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

What did he say that was untrue? To have as shot on it's way down, the ball has to have a chance to go in and has to be completely above the rim in order to have a violation for GT.

Peace

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Post by zackman, December 29, 2015 at 8:15 pm:
It is not always goaltending when a shot is touched while on the way down – If a layup (or bank shot) is one it’s way down, it can still be legally blocked provided the ball is not yet above the cylinder.

The cylinder is irrelevant for GT. This guy is saying you can block a layup or bank shot regardless of whether it's going up or down, as long as it's not in the cylinder.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Adam

The cylinder is irrelevant for GT. This guy is saying you can block a layup or bank shot regardless of whether it's going up or down, as long as it's not in the cylinder.

I must have read it differently, but the part about the cylinder does not play a role for GT at all. I thought his major point was about the ball hitting the backboard or on it's downward flight.

For the record, in NCAA rules, this part would matter and could result in a violation.

Peace

[Matt]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I must have read it differently, but the part about the cylinder does not play a role for GT at all. I thought his major point was about the ball hitting the backboard or on it's downward flight.

Zackman is saying the cylinder is relevant--that if the ball is not yet in it, it can be legally touched.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Matt

Zackman is saying the cylinder is relevant--that if the ball is not yet in it, it can be legally touched.

I did not take his comments that way, but if you did fine with me. I took his comments as more stating that what was legal until the ball was in the cylinder. Now if the ball is in the cylinder and touched, you would have a violation still, just not at GT violation.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Matt

Zackman is saying the cylinder is relevant--that if the ball is not yet in it, it can be legally touched.

And I say that said ball can't be legally touched in a high school game.

A1 shoots layup. Ball is on the way up and then it bounces off the backboard. It's still on it's way up and reaches it's apex and then gravity causes it to start on it's way down, toward the basket. The ball is now on it's way down, toward the basket, but still outside the cylinder, above the ring, when B1 contacts the ball, and blocks the shot.

My ruling: Goaltending.

NFHS: Goaltending is when a player touches the ball during a try, or tap, while it is in its downward flight, entirely above the basket ring level, outside the imaginary cylinder above the ring, and has the possibility of entering the basket.

My interpretation is most certainly contrary to zackman's post: It is not always goaltending when a shot is touched while on the way down – If a layup (or bank shot) is one it’s way down, it can still be legally blocked provided the ball is not yet above the cylinder.

Of course, my interpretation may be different per rule sets other than NFHS (NCAA, NBA, FIBA).

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I did not take his comments that way, but if you did fine with me. I took his comments as more stating that what was legal until the ball was in the cylinder. Now if the ball is in the cylinder and touched, you would have a violation still, just not at GT violation.

Peace

Jeff, read the quote again. He said it's legal to block a shot that is "on the way down" if it is not "yet" above the cylinder.

This can only mean a shot that is already above the rim, on its way down, but not yet within the cylinder. "yet" is really the key between the way you read it and the way I read it.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Adam

Jeff, read the quote again. He said it's legal to block a shot that is "on the way down" if it is not "yet" above the cylinder.

This can only mean a shot that is already above the rim, on its way down, but not yet within the cylinder. "yet" is really the key between the way you read it and the way I read it.

He would have to clarify his position on this, I am just saying that I did not read as an all or nothing statement. It is no big deal, I would not have mentioned the cylinder unless mentioning BI, but that is me.

Peace

[BlueDevilRef]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I can't believe that the creators of the website left the erroneous post on the site since December 28, 2015 without correcting it. That would never happen here on the Forum. We'd be all over that like white on rice. Like ugly on an ape. Like a duck on a Junebug.

Ummmm.......I hate to be a stickler here but you are just dead wrong.

The correct analogy is like a duck on a cheeto. Ducks love Cheetos.