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  #46 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 11, 2016, 02:00pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob1968 View Post
2015-17 OFFICIALS MANUAL
4.4 PLAY IS STOPPED

4.4.2 Fouls

B. Point of the Foul: It is imperative that a definite procedure in officiating mechanics be used when a foul occurs. The following duties should be performed in the order listed by the ruling official:

1. Sound the whistle . . .while raising one hand, fist clenched, . . .
2. When player clarification is needed, . . . (optional bird-dog signal).
3. While holding the foul signal, . . .stop and verbally inform the player that he/she fouled by stating the jersey color and number.
4. Lower the foul signal and indicate the nature of the foul by giving a preliminary signal. (italics added)
5. through 8.

Discussions about proper mechanics, especially individual official mechanics, often seem to indicate that more experienced, and more highly ranked, esteemed officials, are not required to perform the specific mechanics noted. Often, the idea or concept is supported that great, experienced judgement is preferred above sound, and letter-of-the book mechanics. I do not understand that the two are mutually exclusive.
They are not mutually exclusive. However, lots of these things aren't strictly mandated everywhere. If they are where you live, great -- do what you need to do.

A few years ago I had gotten into the habit of not stopping the clock on many out of bounds calls. Went to a camp and it was the first thing said in the classroom -- you *will* do this. Did it all weekend and haven't stopped since.

But if I were to stand there and call out a color and a number and give a preliminary signal on every foul, I'd be the only one in my area doing it. See no reason to be that person, either.
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 11, 2016, 02:17pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
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I guess I do not see the big deal. If you give a signal is it really going to hinder what you do? Just like people that are so against the birddog at times. Is it really hurting you?

Every hand-check I call I give that signal. I would not do it any other way just like a block-charge call. You keep people in suspense unnecessarily. Not all falls are ones everyone agrees with or sees it your way. The signal IMO helps tell everyone what you just saw. And there is a difference between a hold and a slap on the arm.

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  #48 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 11, 2016, 02:21pm
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Originally Posted by Rich View Post
They are not mutually exclusive. However, lots of these things aren't strictly mandated everywhere. If they are where you live, great -- do what you need to do.

A few years ago I had gotten into the habit of not stopping the clock on many out of bounds calls. Went to a camp and it was the first thing said in the classroom -- you *will* do this. Did it all weekend and haven't stopped since.

But if I were to stand there and call out a color and a number and give a preliminary signal on every foul, I'd be the only one in my area doing it. See no reason to be that person, either.
I admire your ability to state the crux of the matter.
A few of the comments, in this thread, would intimate that the preliminary signals are nowhere mentioned in NFHS literature.

In my area, because I mentor and train so many officials, I feel obligated to teach them by the book. And, as each young official progresses, he/she comes to understand that the protocol is flexible, and fit to the standards accepted in the area. I prefer to give the new officials a sound, book-based foundation. Their rules knowledge, individual mechanics, and positioning concepts are elements that they can study, work on, and develop off and on the court. (I often tell them to "wear-out a mirror" by practicing their individual reporting mechanics.)

Last year, an evaluator, unfamiliar with me, sent to evaluate my partner's performance, in a M/JV game, that I took as a favor to the assignor, told me to change a particular mechanic I had used in the 1st half of a game he was observing. His instruction was totally incorrect. And I did exactly what he wanted, for the 2nd half of the game.
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 11, 2016, 02:41pm
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Originally Posted by Dad View Post
You see a lot of goofy stuff watching your kid play. Entertaining or does it make you mad? ;p
I keep telling him to make varsity so he gets better refs . . . as I've told him, he's getting the refs that are either new and learning on don't care and he needs to just roll with it, which he mostly does.

In fairness, while there are some odd calls, overall most of the games are reasonably called -- typically there is a relatively consistent foul bar. (Seems to be from the stands that the dribbling offenses, particularly carrying, are less consistent -- and sometimes the two refs are calling differently, which can be frustrating for the players.) And I probably notice more of the quirks than most from my general interest in officiating and lurking around here.

I think I get far less frustrated than many parents -- I'm more likely to accept that a call was right even when it goes against us, and I appreciate how difficult the job is, especially with a two man team. (On many obviously missed calls, I can tell that neither ref had a decent angle, and it is obvious to us in the stands because we did end up with a good angle on a particular play.)

So the short answer, is that I really don't get particularly mad. Perplexed and bemused, perhaps, but not worth getting mad, so long as (which has been the case the vast majority of the time) it is clear that the refs really are trying and working hard. (I do find myself getting mad when it is clearly a ref who is not working hard and appears to have accepted JV hoops as merely a way to get a check this afternoon . . . )
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 11, 2016, 02:48pm
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Originally Posted by EarnYourStripes View Post
... Some examples could be a slight hit to the head on a drive to the basket or an elbow tap on a shooter. ....
I use my voice in such situations. "Hit him in the head", "Grabbed his arm", "Pushed before the travel", etc.
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 11, 2016, 02:54pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob1968 View Post
I admire your ability to state the crux of the matter.
A few of the comments, in this thread, would intimate that the preliminary signals are nowhere mentioned in NFHS literature.

In my area, because I mentor and train so many officials, I feel obligated to teach them by the book. And, as each young official progresses, he/she comes to understand that the protocol is flexible, and fit to the standards accepted in the area. I prefer to give the new officials a sound, book-based foundation. Their rules knowledge, individual mechanics, and positioning concepts are elements that they can study, work on, and develop off and on the court. (I often tell them to "wear-out a mirror" by practicing their individual reporting mechanics.)

....
I tell new officials to demonstrate that they know how do everything by the book. As they move up they will learn when and where they can deviate. Often times it is a supervisor or experienced evaluator who will advise a talented official that they don't need to do this-or-that because it makes them look like a newby.
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Last edited by Raymond; Tue Jan 12, 2016 at 08:08am.
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 11, 2016, 04:05pm
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Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
I use my voice in such situations. "Hit him in the head", "Grabbed his arm", "Pushed before the travel", etc.
Same here. "Hit before the block" or "Two hands first."

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  #53 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 11, 2016, 10:25pm
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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Same here. "Hit before the block" or "Two hands first."

Peace
I'm with you guys on the verbalizing part. Can be tough in a crowded gym for a coach on the opposite side of the court to hear though in some cases and I have definitely seen some guys get push back from coaches when reporting a hit to the head with the NFHS approved hit mechanic. I really wish the NFHS would expand the usable mechanics to let us more accurately portray what happened on a play.
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 11, 2016, 11:18pm
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Originally Posted by EarnYourStripes View Post
I really wish the NFHS would expand the usable mechanics to let us more accurately portray what happened on a play.

I just do it anyway.

Oops, did I just type that out loud?

Ok, so I may not get a state tournament assignment this year. But in the other 99% of games I do, many of which are really good 6A-ish games that are more competitive than most state tournament games, I think the coaches appreciate my advanced signaling vocabulary. Communication is key.

The NFHS basketball rules committee continues to inexplicably stymie the very kinds of communication they portend to encourage.


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  #55 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 12, 2016, 11:01am
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Originally Posted by Rich View Post
I wish observers cared more about positioning and playcalling. I assign for 20+ schools and I couldn't care less if officials give a prelim.
+1

Fitness, Approachability, Rule Knowledge, and above all "Call Accuracy". If you are getting these right you are probably doing the little things as well.
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