Assistant chirping from stands

[UNIgiantslayers]

Originally Posted by deecee

That would change a bit considering the new information to B- for JV and C- for V.

But it's really only on this small incident. The rest of the game could have been great and the overall score could well be B+/A-.

How could I handle it in the future to be an A?

[deecee]

Originally Posted by UNIgiantslayers

How could I handle it in the future to be an A?

My initial response, as well as what others have said. Ting up an assistant without at least giving the HC an opportunity to deal with his/her bench is one thing first off. The assistant didn't say something that was so T worthy that a quick "coach please keep your bench in order" wouldn't have solved or setup the easy T later.

With the HC, "please get back to your bench I'll come to you" or "I heard you coach, lets move on." and then you report and leave. If he continues towards you easy T (which is what happened). In all honesty what you did here with the HC wasn't that bad, he earned his T. But the bigger point is you could have possibly avoided 2 T's with a "coach please keep your bench in order" type of comment.

After a game if a coach approaches me, and this works for me so Im not saying you have to adopt it, and has a genuine question about WHY I called something I have no problem discussing with them. The operative word is discussing. NOT them talking at me.

I also would stay away from saying things like "keep your mouth shut on the bench." to them. They are adults, even though they may not act like it, and we can treat them like adults.

I will also preface this with the fact that in my last 2 games I DID NOT give T's to HC's that were deserved and it has been chewing at me. So maybe fire away and clear the bodies later, what do I know?

[UNIgiantslayers]

Thanks for all the input.

I agree with you guys that I probably should have given him a warning about the AC, so that part was totally my fault. Yes, this probably would have resolved both T's. I also agree that I probably shouldn't have told him to keep his mouth shut. Sometimes I forget that they all aren't big boys and I need to keep the kid gloves on somewhat. I could have phrased that better with the same message, and I realize that. I have been working on communicating better with coaches, and I think this will be something that I'll focus on for the 2nd half of this season.

As far as the convo with the HC (JV), I didn't feel too badly about that because of the way he was approaching me. I probably wasn't as clear as I should have been but he was clearly trying to intimidate/bully me, so I wanted to shut that down immediately. I felt his actions were not deserving of a nice/respectful response like "Okay coach, I'll come to you if you just head back that way." That's why I'm here though, I want to learn from what you guys would do so that I can continue to improve and fill out a full slate of V games each year instead of sprinkling in the JV/JH games to fill out the schedule.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by UNIgiantslayers

Thanks for all the input.

I agree with you guys that I probably should have given him a warning about the AC, so that part was totally my fault. Yes, this probably would have resolved both T's. I also agree that I probably shouldn't have told him to keep his mouth shut. Sometimes I forget that they all aren't big boys and I need to keep the kid gloves on somewhat. I could have phrased that better with the same message, and I realize that. I have been working on communicating better with coaches, and I think this will be something that I'll focus on for the 2nd half of this season.

As far as the convo with the HC (JV), I didn't feel too badly about that because of the way he was approaching me. I probably wasn't as clear as I should have been but he was clearly trying to intimidate/bully me, so I wanted to shut that down immediately. I felt his actions were not deserving of a nice/respectful response like "Okay coach, I'll come to you if you just head back that way." That's why I'm here though, I want to learn from what you guys would do so that I can continue to improve and fill out a full slate of V games each year instead of sprinkling in the JV/JH games to fill out the schedule.

I have no problem with the way you handled it. Could a warning earlier have prevented it? Maybe, but judging by the coach's response to the T, I doubt it. Once you determined the comments were coming from the AC, you could have reminded the coach that his AC was on the verge of costing his team a technical foul. Note, you could have, but it's by no means required and it's not something the coach is owed or deserves. As rockyroad noted, the coach knows the role of an AC and allowing the AC to step outside that role is on him.

As for the way you dealt with the HC, not only would I call the T just as you did but I would also make sure you submit a report to your assigner and maybe the state. A technical foul is one thing, coaches get stupid from time to time, but an attempt to physically intimidate an official is above and beyond the normal stupid line.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by UNIgiantslayers

As far as the convo with the HC (JV), I didn't feel too badly about that because of the way he was approaching me. I probably wasn't as clear as I should have been but he was clearly trying to intimidate/bully me, so I wanted to shut that down immediately. I felt his actions were not deserving of a nice/respectful response like "Okay coach, I'll come to you if you just head back that way." That's why I'm here though, I want to learn from what you guys would do so that I can continue to improve and fill out a full slate of V games each year instead of sprinkling in the JV/JH games to fill out the schedule.

If that's the case T him 100% of the time. I have handed out T's to coaches for staring me down. The first time I looked at the coach, noticed he was just trying to stare me down and I said "I'm not going to play that game." I turned away to move to my spot looked back he was still staring so I T'd him up.

When I first started officiating I was very quick with the T's, and I think when you are less experienced it's better to be quick with T's than not give out enough.

The point is, more often than not, at the lower levels the T's are much easier to call.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by UNIgiantslayers

How could I handle it in the future to be an A?

Ignore his evaluation.

You handled this just fine. The whole notion that you have to give a warning to the HC to control his bench before calling a T on that bench is ridiculous. Every coach knows the role of the Assistants. If they want to step out of that role, they get what they earn.

[Adam]

Why was the AC sitting behind the bench?

[UNIgiantslayers]

Originally Posted by Adam

Why was the AC sitting behind the bench?

I have no idea. He's the V head coach, so maybe he was just watching. But my thought is that if he went into the locker room with the team, he is a member of that team's coaching staff.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by UNIgiantslayers

I have no idea. He's the V head coach, so maybe he was just watching. But my thought is that if he went into the locker room with the team, he is a member of that team's coaching staff.

In that case, he's likely just a spectator. As a coach, he is required to be on the bench. As a fan he gets a little leeway. As a coach in the stands, he can still be held to a higher standard and simply removed from the gym.

One possible way to address it is to ask the JV HC if the guy behind the bench is an AC for this game. If he answers in the affirmative, remind him he needs to be on the bench and warn him that the comments need to cease. If he says no, feel free to go to game management and have the loudmouthed fan removed.

Again, I have no problem with how you handled it; these are just possible alternatives.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by Adam

In that case, he's likely just a spectator. As a coach, he is required to be on the bench. As a fan he gets a little leeway. As a coach in the stands, he can still be held to a higher standard and simply removed from the gym.

One possible way to address it is to ask the JV HC if the guy behind the bench is an AC for this game. If he answers in the affirmative, remind him he needs to be on the bench and warn him that the comments need to cease. If he says no, feel free to go to game management and have the loudmouthed fan removed.

This was my thought as well. It can be a slippery slope when you T up someone not on the bench when you really don't know their role.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by UNIgiantslayers

I have no idea. He's the V head coach, so maybe he was just watching. But my thought is that if he went into the locker room with the team, he is a member of that team's coaching staff.

That's not correct.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Ignore his evaluation.

You handled this just fine. The whole notion that you have to give a warning to the HC to control his bench before calling a T on that bench is ridiculous. Every coach knows the role of the Assistants. If they want to step out of that role, they get what they earn.

You absolutely can. But this is what has been instructed to me from HS to college by officials that do D1 to state finals, to assignors and evaluators.There is a shift from a dogmatic, holier than thou, officiating mindset to a more communicative one. My college assignor told me flat out he does not want officials that cannot communicate with players and coaches.

This year being my first doing ncaam I have had 3 games so far and 2 T's, both on players. In HS I have done about 15 BV games so far and had 6 T's I believe. 1 on a coach, and 2 that I should have called and had a lapse in testicular fortitude.

Rocky is right, you don't HAVE to warn, and there are instances where there is no warning. But from what you described I personally don't see that as an auto T versus an opportunity to work with the coach.

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Ignore his evaluation.

You handled this just fine. The whole notion that you have to give a warning to the HC to control his bench before calling a T on that bench is ridiculous. Every coach knows the role of the Assistants. If they want to step out of that role, they get what they earn.

To each his own, but I'm not sure I'd call this "Ridiculous." If I can prevent a problem by showing the HC enough respect to give him a chance to rectify the scenario, then I think that's good game management. Again, as others have said, there are some things that an AC can say that is automatic, no need to warn a coach, but from the description in the OP, this certainly doesn't seem like the case to me.

"You HAVE to give a warning to the HC" is ridiculous, but if you're able to, why not?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by frezer11

To each his own, but I'm not sure I'd call this "Ridiculous." If I can prevent a problem by showing the HC enough respect to give him a chance to rectify the scenario, then I think that's good game management. Again, as others have said, there are some things that an AC can say that is automatic, no need to warn a coach, but from the description in the OP, this certainly doesn't seem like the case to me.

"You HAVE to give a warning to the HC" is ridiculous, but if you're able to, why not?

But we still have rules and those rules are actually rather clear. We give warnings to be courteous and mostly so we do not look like a bad guy, but there is nothing that requires us to do that in any way.

Peace

[BatteryPowered]

Only once have I given a JV assistant (read V head coach) some slack. I had called a couple of his games that season already and knew him fairly well because of other things I was doing for the school district.

Middle of the 3rd quarter (he had been saying a few things but not being a pest) we have a full TO. I am standing at the block and he slowly walks toward me. Now, I know he just wants a question answered because he just asked it and I didn't have an opportunity to speak with him. However, when he got to me (before he had a chance to speak) I said "Coach, in this game you're an assistant. Don't say anything and go back to the bench." He just put his head down and returned from whence he came. After the game he stopped me and said (smiling) "You know, you could have just given me a stop sign and saved me some steps." I told him "And you know better than to come out onto the floor like that." He just looked at me strangely and said "Point taken"...then added "That's what I like about you...you know how to get you point across very clearly." Then we discussed his question and he was came to the realization that he was wrong...even admitted it (I refrained from saying "Duh" ).

Sadly, he has retired...good coach, very fair and a great man.