Coach appears to headbutt official

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

The call could have been 100% correct and still evoked the same reaction.

Coaches' opinions of plays are quite often wrong.

It certainly could, but we'll never know.

I've never said anything that suggests the coach has an excuse for behaving as he did. He should be charged with crime for his actions. He was way beyond a reasonable reaction to a call, whether right or wrong.

Either way, that doesn't erase the face that the call that led to it was also wrong. And most of what we work on and discuss here is getting the calls right. It can' t hurt to discuss that too and discuss the potential consequences of getting calls wrong.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

It certainly could, but we'll never know.

I've never said anything that suggests the coach has an excuse for behaving as he did. He should be charged with crime for his actions.

Either way, that doesn't erase the face that the call that led to it was also wrong. And most of what we work on and discuss here is getting the calls right. It can' t hurt to discuss that too and discuss the potential consequences of getting calls wrong.

I have not seen an angle that I am satisfied with the correctness of the call. All I have seen is an angle from the other side of the court and not the angle of the calling official. I also doubt it was just that call. There was probably other things that got him upset.

If you look at a video of when Boehiem was ejected, even Jay Bilas said that JB actions were unacceptable and it was his actions that cost the game.

Peace

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Adam

If he'd had karate training, he would have known that.

On the other hand, the coach did have to move to hit him. He moved quite a distance, actually, pretty quickly.

Right. That's my point. That's the takeaway. When someone's moving towards you aggressively, stop. Move away. Quickly, if necessary.

That didn't happen here.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

Right. That's my point. That's the takeaway. When someone's moving towards you aggressively, stop. Move away. Quickly, if necessary.

That didn't happen here.

This is a bit ridiculous.

Officials are not certified ninjas.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I have not seen an angle that I am satisfied with the correctness of the call. All I have seen is an angle from the other side of the court and not the angle of the calling official.

I'm glad you said this - I never thought this play was as clear cut and obvious as some people have stated, but I really didn't want to open that can of worms myself.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Dad

This is a bit ridiculous.

Officials are not certified ninjas.

It's this attitude that gets referees hurt. You can protect yourself easily without being a ninja. Mocking the idea that it's possible to be safe and referee at the same time is just going to lead to more successful assaults.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Smitty

I'm glad you said this - I never thought this play was as clear cut and obvious as some people have stated, but I really didn't want to open that can of worms myself.

I too didn't see that it was an "obvious" block because we only have one camera angle and it wasn't the point of the thread. But does anybody really think that would make a difference? I'm skeptical.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

Right. That's my point. That's the takeaway. When someone's moving towards you aggressively, stop. Move away. Quickly, if necessary.

That didn't happen here.

Frankly, he didn't have time. Your advice here would have to be applied virtually in every single close game where a coach might have a call go against him. Most of will work 20+ years, calling hundreds of technical fouls on emotional coaches and never have a single coach even consider this sort of assault.

You're talking about self-defense and situational awareness stuff that most will never need. It's good advice, but it would prevent us from getting close to a coach for a quiet discussion.

Had this official done something to escalate the situation, I could see addressing that.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I too didn't see that it was an "obvious" block because we only have one camera angle and it wasn't the point of the thread. But does anybody really think that would make a difference? I'm skeptical.

Not at all, and that's another reason I didn't bother bringing it up - the thread was about the reaction, not that the call was blown. I just saw people right away saying it was an obvious blown call and I looked at the video several times and I still wasn't sure. I'm just glad he said it so I don't feel like I was the only one who doesn't see it was that bad of a call. I don't want to hijack the thread with that discussion.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by Adam

Frankly, he didn't have time. Your advice here would have to be applied virtually in every single close game where a coach might have a call go against him. Most of will work 20+ years, calling hundreds of technical fouls on emotional coaches and never have a single coach even consider this sort of assault.

You're talking about self-defense and situational awareness stuff that most will never need. It's good advice, but it would prevent us from getting close to a coach for a quiet discussion.

Had this official done something to escalate the situation, I could see addressing that.

Piling on to that answer, I do believe that the T was coming in to be a barrier between the coach and the L. Which is something I might have done under the same situation. And is a perfectly reasonable thing to do. If he hadn't, then the coach may have had a clear path to the L, who had his back to the coach at that point and may have received a head-butt to the back of his head, which may have been a much worse outcome. I don't think it's realistic that I, as a ref, should ever have to be concerned with my proximity to a coach. If that day comes, it will probably be time to hang it up. We don't get paid enough for that. The only time I have ever worried about being near anyone is after a fight has already broken out - I'm looking to be several feet away from anyone. But that's an entirely different situation.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Adam

I'm all for discussing plays and seeing what we as a group could have done differently in most situations. However, once a coach assaults (or batters) an official in the course of a game, I'm no longer interested in reviewing any actions of that official in that game. Unless he physically threatened the coach, the only discussion is whether or not the charges will be upgraded to a felony.

Someone noted that it seems he's not filing charges. If that's the case, it is my only critique of the official.

If he "embellished" or fell "too easily," I don't give a crap. We aren't required to stay in the line of fire and "take it like a man".

I'd be shocked if this was the first incident where this guy lost his temper, and I'm guessing he knew as soon as he turned around that his career was over and that he may well have to call his lawyer.

You know how much I respect you, but I couldn't disagree with you more.

Since the only thing that should happen on the administrative side is arrest/prosecution and the coach/teacher losing his job, I think the *only* discussion here that's worthy is what could have been done differently by the officials -- if only to better prepare us for something like this.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Smitty

Piling on to that answer, I do believe that the T was coming in to be a barrier between the coach and the L. Which is something I might have done under the same situation. And is a perfectly reasonable thing to do. If he hadn't, then the coach may have had a clear path to the L, who had his back to the coach at that point and may have received a head-butt to the back of his head, which may have been a much worse outcome. I don't think it's realistic that I, as a ref, should ever have to be concerned with my proximity to a coach. If that day comes, it will probably be time to hang it up. We don't get paid enough for that. The only time I have ever worried about being near anyone is after a fight has already broken out - I'm looking to be several feet away from anyone. But that's an entirely different situation.

That day is here or we wouldn't be having this discussion.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

That day is here or we wouldn't be having this discussion.

This was (thankfully) still an edge case. It is not a common occurrence, nor is it something that makes me worry. Yet.

It's no less likely than someone in the stands taking out a gun and shooting at people, but I can't worry about that happening either.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Smitty

I'm glad you said this - I never thought this play was as clear cut and obvious as some people have stated, but I really didn't want to open that can of worms myself.

For all we know, that might have been the young guy that called the foul and the veteran (Who was said to be the R in this game) came to help him out so that the coach would behave.

Peace

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

For all we know, that might have been the young guy that called the foul and the veteran (Who was said to be the R in this game) came to help him out so that the coach would behave.

Peace

Very true - we can't just assume because the L was older that he was the senior official on the floor. Can't judge a book by its cover.