The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball
Register FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 03, 2016, 12:46pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 15,015
Not at all. The only requirement is that the five players remain standing. Everyone else may stand if they wish or may remain sitting if they wish.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 03, 2016, 02:02pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 23,378
Sunday Morning (Earth, Wind & Fire, 1993) ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
Not at all. The only requirement is that the five players remain standing. Everyone else may stand if they wish or may remain sitting if they wish.
Thanks Nevadaref. I thought so. It was interpreted a different way at our local monthly meeting this morning (I know, Sunday morning, not cool). I will get it straightened out.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 03, 2016, 06:42pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 23,378
Help ...

I am having a tough time convincing the local powers that be that substitutes, and coaches, are allowed to stand during a thirty second timeout. Dissecting the language of the 5-11-3 won't convince them. I no longer have my written notes from the 1997-98 season (I ran out of room in my notebook, bought a new notebook, never thought that I would need the old notes).

Anybody have a caseplay, or an interpretation, that could help me plead my case? Help. I'm as desperate as those Desperate Housewives.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 03, 2016, 06:51pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 782
Take a look at 10-4-4: Bench personnel, including the head coach, shall not: . . . Stand at the team bench while the clock is running or is stopped, and must remain seated, except:
c. During a charged time-out, as in 5-11, (which defines time-outs), or the intermission between quarters and extra periods.
__________________
To be good at a sport, one must be smart enough to play the game -- and dumb enough to think that it's important . . .
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 03, 2016, 06:58pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 23,378
Nice Try ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob1968 View Post
Take a look at 10-4-4: Bench personnel, including the head coach, shall not: . . . Stand at the team bench while the clock is running or is stopped, and must remain seated, except:
c. During a charged time-out, as in 5-11, (which defines time-outs), or the intermission between quarters and extra periods.
Thanks, but I was hoping for something with more pizazz.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 03, 2016, 06:59pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 782
Billy, if it ain't illegal, it must be legal . . .
__________________
To be good at a sport, one must be smart enough to play the game -- and dumb enough to think that it's important . . .
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 03, 2016, 07:16pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,273
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Thanks, but I was hoping for something with more pizazz.
Billy,

It's unfortunate that people try to read things into the rule that aren't there.

As Rob stated, 10-4-4 states that bench personnel may stand during a charged time out. It does not differentiate between 30 sec. and 60 sec. time outs, so applies to both.

The provisions of 5-11-3 only apply to "players", saying they must remain standing during a 30 second time out - it has nothing to do with bench personnel, who are covered by 10-4-4. It also has no effect on 60 sec. tiimeouts - players may stand or sit as they choose.
__________________
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons - for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup!
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 03, 2016, 07:23pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 23,378
Mistakes Happen ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimTaylor View Post
It's unfortunate that people try to read things into the rule that aren't there.
It's frustrating for me, a journeyman official who is pretty good (not great) at rules, and interpretations, to convince a top notch official who knows, by heart, 99.9% of the rules, and interruptions, that he is mistaken in this one case. If I push too hard, I'm liable to be labeled as a "rules guy" (good at rules, incapable of working real games).
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Sun Jan 03, 2016 at 07:26pm.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 03, 2016, 07:05pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: PG County, MD
Posts: 412
The intent of the rule is to point out that during a 30 sec T.O., the players who were on the court are not allowed to be seated. It does not mean that bench personnel are not allowed to stand during a charged timeout


See rule 10-4-4

ART. 4

The head coach is responsible for his/her own conduct and behavior, as well as substitutes, disqualified team members and all other bench personnel. Bench personnel, including the head coach, shall not:

Stand at the team bench while the clock is running or is stopped, and must remain seated, except:

a. The head coach as in 10-5-1.

b. When a team member is reporting to the scorer's table.

c. During a charged time-out, as in 5-11, or the intermission between quarters and extra periods.

d. To spontaneously react to an outstanding play by a team member or to acknowledge a replaced player(s), but must immediately return to his/her seat.

PENALTY: (Arts. 1, 2, 3, 4) Two free throws plus the ball for a division-line throw-in. If the head coach is the offender, the foul is charged directly to him/her. The foul is charged to the offender (if not the head coach) and also charged indirectly to the head coach. (Art. 1g) Flagrant foul, the offender is disqualified. If the offender is bench personnel, each foul is also charged indirectly to the head coach.
__________________
You learn something new everyday ...
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 03, 2016, 07:19pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 23,378
Preaching To The Choir ...

Thanks guys, but, as I said, dissecting rule language won't help.

I really need a caseplay, interpretation, or a test question, to be convincing.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 04, 2016, 04:27pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Illinois
Posts: 439
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Thanks Nevadaref. I thought so. It was interpreted a different way at our local monthly meeting this morning (I know, Sunday morning, not cool). I will get it straightened out.
Basketball must be easy to officiate in your neck of the woods. This seems like a wierd nit to pick even if it wasn't allowed. Much less bring about that much discussion at a local meeting that people were at odds on how to rule on it.
__________________
"The soldier is the army."

-General George S. Patton, Jr.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 04, 2016, 05:05pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 23,378
Thanks For Your Support ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by j51969 View Post
Basketball must be easy to officiate in your neck of the woods. This seems like a weird nit to pick even if it wasn't allowed. Much less bring about that much discussion at a local meeting that people were at odds on how to rule on it.
Not really a discussion. Question was brought up. It was answered by the powers that be that, by rule, only five could stand, but we would make an exception locally and allow the entire team to stand. More than 300 members sat there and said nothing while I said to myself "What the ...?". I waited to get home to double check my interpretation, emailed my constructive criticism to the powers that be, was dismissed, asked for a double check, was dismissed again, until I emailed the 2001-02 Rule Book Comments, after which I was thanked for straightening it out.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 04, 2016, 09:39pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Not really a discussion. Question was brought up. It was answered by the powers that be that, by rule, only five could stand, but we would make an exception locally and allow the entire team to stand. More than 300 members sat there and said nothing while I said to myself "What the ...?". I waited to get home to double check my interpretation, emailed my constructive criticism to the powers that be, was dismissed, asked for a double check, was dismissed again, until I emailed the 2001-02 Rule Book Comments, after which I was thanked for straightening it out.
This was a strange one Billy. The rules on this are really clear. If your "powers that be" needed that old comment to be convinced they probably shouldn't be "the powers that be."
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 04, 2016, 09:51pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 15,015
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCat View Post
This was a strange one Billy. The rules on this are really clear. If your "powers that be" needed that old comment to be convinced they probably shouldn't be "the powers that be."
The real problem is if these are the same people who were in charge back in 2006 when BillyMac first brought this issue before the forum. It was answered then, so these folks shouldn't need the same question answered again.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 04, 2016, 10:03pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
The real problem is if these are the same people who were in charge back in 2006 when BillyMac first brought this issue before the forum. It was answered then, so these folks shouldn't need the same question answered again.
Make a note of it. It will likely come up again in 2026.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Timeout or not Mike51 Basketball 18 Tue Feb 24, 2009 09:32pm
Full or Thirty?? ref18 Basketball 4 Sun Mar 07, 2004 03:19pm
Experimental thirty second substitution rule., Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Basketball 34 Mon Nov 03, 2003 09:29am
Timeout??? Bchill24 Basketball 6 Tue Dec 25, 2001 12:34am
Timeout Rookie Basketball 17 Wed Dec 12, 2001 04:44am


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:53pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1