Two Entire Rosters Suspended

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Refhoop

Where is this written: "never touch a player"? Have there been lawsuits resulting from officials breaking up fights?

Where have there been lawsuits for not breaking up fights? As others have mentioned, 95% of us have never been trained in breaking up fights. You grab a player's arms and restrain him, then his opponent spots an opportunity. You grab a player's shoulder and accidentally grab her chest. You grab a player and pull him away from a fight and he trips and falls backwards, hitting his head on the floor.

Before you say these are all unlikely and you've never seen them; it's probably because the vast majority (an understatement) of officials do not get physically involved in a fight. And as unlikely as my scenarios are, they are more likely than some pissed off dad deciding to sue the officials for not stopping a fight combined with a lawyer willing to take the case on contingency combined with a judge/jury willing to find in favor of the plaintiff.

I'm keeping my hands off and advising others do the same. You do what you think is best.

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by Refhoop

Where is this written: "never touch a player"?

Maybe you should read your books.

NFHS 2015-2017 Basketball Officials Manual

page 11

1.4.3.C. Should a fight occur, use your voice and whistle to gain the attention of players.

1.4.3.D. Do not touch, hold or grab players - both for your own safety and for liability concerns.

1.4.3.E. One official should remain away from the action and observe non-participating players and bench personel.

Clear enough?

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Refhoop

Sub varsity game:Very often there is only one coach and he left the other immature minors to run on the court... likely they will follow him - unfortunately.
So to "stir the pot"
Do we really need the coach on the floor for a fight?
I was at the NASO conference in STL this summer and during a presentation, an attorney said: Good officials Don't let athletes fight during their game"... He goes on to say: Don't think you won't be sued if a kid gets hurt during that fight and there's video footage of you standing there watching.
His illustration was NBA officals: Arguably the best officials in our game.
His question: Do you ever see NBA Officials backing away from a fight?
Answer: Hell no! They are dealing with the strongest basketball players in the world and they stop the fight - always!

That attorney's a ****ing idiot. They can sue all they want--it isn't going anywhere. Now, if a kid gets hurt because you try to break up a fight and either injure him or contribute to another injuring him...those would hold more water.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Matt

That attorney's a ****ing idiot. They can sue all they want--it isn't going anywhere. Now, if a kid gets hurt because you try to break up a fight and either injure him or contribute to another injuring him...those would hold more water.

I could call Alan Goldberger a lot of things, but an ****ing idiot would be near the bottom of that list. He's the preeminent attorney when it comes to sports officiating matters and he knows what he's talking about.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Rich

I could call Alan Goldberger a lot of things, but an ****ing idiot would be near the bottom of that list. He's the preeminent attorney when it comes to sports officiating matters and he knows what he's talking about.

Not in this case (no pun intended.)

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Matt

Not in this case (no pun intended.)

What's your area of expertise that would trump his?

(I'm asking this seriously. You could be a top notch attorney and I simply wouldn't know.)

[Refhoop]

Originally Posted by Matt

That attorney's a ****ing idiot. They can sue all they want--it isn't going anywhere. Now, if a kid gets hurt because you try to break up a fight and either injure him or contribute to another injuring him...those would hold more water.

Lawsuit doesn't have to amount to anything, but it still cost to defend yourself.
Had there been an injury and that video was submitted as evidence... That Lead has some explaining to do.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Refhoop

Lawsuit doesn't have to amount to anything, but it still cost to defend yourself.
Had there been an injury and that video was submitted as evidence... That Lead has some explaining to do.

Wouldn't cost me anything but time and a phone call -- it's why I have been an NASO member for a long time.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Refhoop

Lawsuit doesn't have to amount to anything, but it still cost to defend yourself.
Had there been an injury and that video was submitted as evidence... That Lead has some explaining to do.

No, he doesn't. He's not a cop, he's not security. Not his job nor is it assumed that he would have competence in physically ending a brawl. Hell, that WAS my real job (along with others in our association) and we were told that we were not to act any differently from any other official in brawl situations (not that we had to be told, because we know better.)

[Refhoop]

Originally Posted by Matt

No, he doesn't. He's not a cop, he's not security. we were told that we were not to act any differently from any other official in brawl situations

Seems like every school official in the building and even some parents are trying to break up this fight.
Is the trail official doing anything wrong?

[Dad]

Originally Posted by Refhoop

Lawsuit doesn't have to amount to anything, but it still cost to defend yourself.
Had there been an injury and that video was submitted as evidence... That Lead has some explaining to do.

Serious question: Do you have any idea what you're talking about or just saying whatever comes to mind?

There is infinitely more that can go wrong in most situations if you get involved than if you just watch. You can claim random events about people having to go to court to defend themselves because they only observed. This just isn't true. You can't compare NBA events to HS events when money amounts change litigation procedures.

If a player gets injured at the HS level they will be going after the assaulter or the school. Why would they ever care to waste there time going after an official? Especially since I'm hoping most officials pick up there phone and then are done.

Telling officials to observe instead of break up fights is substantially better advice at the high school level.

[InsideTheStripe]

Originally Posted by Dad

If a player gets injured at the HS level they will be going after the assaulter or the school. Why would they ever care to waste there time going after an official? Especially since I'm hoping most officials pick up there phone and then are done.

I've tried to parse these sentences 5-6 times and have no idea what you're trying to say.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by InsideTheStripe

I've tried to parse these sentences 5-6 times and have no idea what you're trying to say.

It honestly seemed pretty clear to me. Whether you agree with his statements or not, I'm not sure which part is unclear.

Paraphrased:
If a player in a high school game is injured in a fight and his parents decide to sue, they're going to go after the school or the person who actually assaulted the kid. there's no point in wasting time going after the official, especially when most of them will simply need to make a phone call to NASO or their state association for legal representation.

[InsideTheStripe]

Originally Posted by Adam

Paraphrased:
If a player in a high school game is injured in a fight and his parents decide to sue, they're going to go after the school or the person who actually assaulted the kid. there's no point in wasting time going after the official, especially when most of them will simply need to make a phone call to NASO or their state association for legal representation.

Thanks for translating that into English. The logic is still horrible, but at least I now understand what he was trying to say.

[Refhoop]

[QUOTE=Dad;974259]Serious question: Do you have any idea what you're talking about or just saying whatever comes to mind?

Yes, putting someone's name on a lawsuit is not too big deal, particularly if the kid is injured bad enough...

https://cdn.streamable.com/video/75a...dd987e691a.mp4