Two Entire Rosters Suspended

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by Refhoop

I willing to bet that the same litigious jerk that would sue you for pulling the kid away, will sue you if that same kid got hurt in the fight.
Notice the coach: pointing and seemingly blaming.
Go ahead and say to the suit happy lawyer and parent: "not it'. I'm betting, "You're it" - like it or not!

You might want to rethink what your scope of practice is as an official.

We are employed as game officials, not as trained police officers, security guards or bouncers, and acting as such would more likely open an official up to liability for acting outside their scope of practice. Just like we never render aid to a possibly injured player - that's the coach's and trainer's responsibility.

Maintaining order in the facility and providing adequate security is the responsibility of game management - even more so when fans get involved. The head coaches are responsible for their players, and the gym supervisor and security/police for everyone else.

[Refhoop]

Originally Posted by TimTaylor

You might want to rethink what your scope of practice is as an official.

We are employed as game officials, not as trained police officers, security guards or bouncers, and acting as such would more likely open an official up to liability for acting outside their scope of practice. Just like we never render aid to a possibly injured player - that's the coach's and trainer's responsibility.

Maintaining order in the facility and providing adequate security is the responsibility of game management - even more so when fans get involved. The head coaches are responsible for their players, and the gym supervisor and security/police for everyone else.

Are we not the police of the game on the court w/ our number one job being: Player Safety?
I didn't say police the entire gym: just the safety of the players on the floor which is where I have jurisdiction.
When safety is number one; how do we justify ourselves by doing nothing?
Our high school rule book says: safety, fair play and sportsmanship is the reason we are there!

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by Refhoop

Are we not the police of the game on the court w/ our number one job being: Player Safety?
I didn't say police the entire gym: just the safety of the players on the floor which is where I have jurisdiction.
When safety is number one; how do we justify ourselves by doing nothing?
Our high school rule book says: safety, fair play and sportsmanship is the reason we are there!

Does your state association provide training, certification and guidelines on how to physically break up a fight on the court? If not, then it is not in your scope of practice as an official.

I never said "do nothing", what I said is I agree with Adam that once the punches start we do not get physically involved - we use our whistle and voice to try to control it as much as we can.

[Refhoop]

Originally Posted by TimTaylor

Does your state association provide training, certification and guidelines on how to physically break up a fight on the court? If not, then it is not in your scope of practice as an official.

I never said "do nothing", what I said is I agree with Adam that once the punches start we do not get physically involved - we use our whistle and voice to try to control it as much as we can.

That's a good defense in court:
"my state doesn't provide training, and I don't know why the kid didn't respond to my whistle or voice".
Q. What training did your state give you in dealing with a fight?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Refhoop

That's a good defense in court:
"my state doesn't provide training, and I don't know why the kid didn't respond to my whistle or voice".
Q. What training did your state give you in dealing with a fight?

A. None.

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by Refhoop

That's a good defense in court:
"my state doesn't provide training, and I don't know why the kid didn't respond to my whistle or voice".
Q. What training did your state give you in dealing with a fight?

We are trained to follow NFHS protocol and guidelines - see my post above (#40)

NFHS 2015-2017 Basketball Officials Manual

page 11

1.4.3.C. Should a fight occur, use your voice and whistle to gain the attention of players.

1.4.3.D. Do not touch, hold or grab players - both for your own safety and for liability concerns.

1.4.3.E. One official should remain away from the action and observe non-participating players and bench personel.

Clear enough?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by TimTaylor

We are trained to follow NFHS protocol and guidelines - see my post above (#40)

NFHS 2015-2017 Basketball Officials Manual

page 11

1.4.3.C. Should a fight occur, use your voice and whistle to gain the attention of players.

1.4.3.D. Do not touch, hold or grab players - both for your own safety and for liability concerns.

1.4.3.E. One official should remain away from the action and observe non-participating players and bench personel.

Clear enough?

Given this guidance, one would be opening himself up to a lawsuit if he or she were to ignore the guidance and start playing a role for which he or she is not trained. If your day job is a cop, by all means, feel free to step in (with deference to your department's guidelines). But if you're a banker or a lawyer or a teacher, I recommend you stick to the NFHS guidelines.

[SaccoVanzetti]

I'm 99.9% never going to get involved in a fight. Could there be a situation? Say on a fastbreak, 8 players go. Maybe one or two trip and are on the ground and you as a trail are staying back to make sure it clears up. They start fighting and one is hurting the other. Maybe then you step in to stop it. Say other players and coaches are watching the ball and no one but you can stop the actions so that could be a situation when I would step in but even then I'm not sure. It would be stupid for refs to get involved in fights. Coaches and players should be the ones breaking it up.