Two Entire Rosters Suspended

[Refhoop]

Originally Posted by Adam

The suit may be equally likely either way (I'm not convinced, but I'm willing to concede that point for discussion.)

But it seems to me, from the perspective of a father who is not an actual lawyer, that the likelihood of a successful suit would be much higher if I put my hands on a kid as opposed to doing everything verbally and audibly to stop a fight.

Again, there's no way in hell I'm putting my hands on a kid to physically move him or her in this situation.

Where is this written: "never touch a player"? Have there been lawsuits resulting from officials breaking up fights?
BTW: I do like whistles and yelling at players. I say, blow the whistle till their all deaf.
But... standing back and doing nothing like the L official in the video?

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by Refhoop

Where is this written: "never touch a player"? Have there been lawsuits resulting from officials breaking up fights?
BTW: I do like whistles and yelling at players. I say, blow the whistle till their all deaf.
But... standing back and doing nothing like the L official in the video?

I don't think he was "doing nothing." I think he was observing what was happening and taking down numbers. C was doing the exact same thing on the other side of things.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Refhoop

Where is this written: "never touch a player"? Have there been lawsuits resulting from officials breaking up fights?

Where have there been lawsuits for not breaking up fights? As others have mentioned, 95% of us have never been trained in breaking up fights. You grab a player's arms and restrain him, then his opponent spots an opportunity. You grab a player's shoulder and accidentally grab her chest. You grab a player and pull him away from a fight and he trips and falls backwards, hitting his head on the floor.

Before you say these are all unlikely and you've never seen them; it's probably because the vast majority (an understatement) of officials do not get physically involved in a fight. And as unlikely as my scenarios are, they are more likely than some pissed off dad deciding to sue the officials for not stopping a fight combined with a lawyer willing to take the case on contingency combined with a judge/jury willing to find in favor of the plaintiff.

I'm keeping my hands off and advising others do the same. You do what you think is best.

[Refhoop]

Originally Posted by Adam

Where have there been lawsuits for not breaking up fights? As others have mentioned, 95% of us have never been trained in breaking up fights. You grab a player's arms and restrain him, then his opponent spots an opportunity. You grab a player's shoulder and accidentally grab her chest. You grab a player and pull him away from a fight and he trips and falls backwards, hitting his head on the floor.

Before you say these are all unlikely and you've never seen them; it's probably because the vast majority (an understatement) of officials do not get physically involved in a fight. And as unlikely as my scenarios are, they are more likely than some pissed off dad deciding to sue the officials for not stopping a fight combined with a lawyer willing to take the case on contingency combined with a judge/jury willing to find in favor of the plaintiff.

I'm keeping my hands off and advising others do the same. You do what you think is best.

Everyone has to do whatever they're most comfortable doing.
The T is old school - he's obviously got training or just instincts that say: "No way and not today".
The advice of "never touch a player" is not always appropriate. If I see a kid stomping a defenseless kids' head MMA Pride style - I defending the helpless. A kid gets his head rammed into that wall and goes down... go ahead an back away if you dare?
"Never touch a player" is an overstatement.
"Extreme caution and in rare instances"; is maybe more appropriate?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Refhoop

Everyone has to do whatever they're most comfortable doing.
The T is old school - he's obviously got training or just instincts that say: "No way and not today".
The advice of "never touch a player" is not always appropriate. If I see a kid stomping a defenseless kids' head MMA Pride style - I defending the helpless. A kid gets his head rammed into that wall and goes down... go ahead an back away if you dare?
"Never touch a player" is an overstatement.
"Extreme caution and in rare instances"; is maybe more appropriate?

the day you see a kid stomping the head of another "MMA Pride style" I'll recommend you go ahead and step in.

If a kid pulls out a gun on the court and I have a chance to stop him, I'll go ahead and tackle him. But I'm not going to use the sasquatch play as a basis of advice for fights that occur far more regularly.

[Refhoop]

Originally Posted by Adam

the day you see a kid stomping the head of another "MMA Pride style" I'll recommend you go ahead and step in.

If a kid pulls out a gun on the court and I have a chance to stop him, I'll go ahead and tackle him. But I'm not going to use the sasquatch play as a basis of advice for fights that occur far more regularly.

My thoughts exactly: A little caution is necessary when using words like never and always.

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by Refhoop

Where is this written: "never touch a player"?

Maybe you should read your books.

NFHS 2015-2017 Basketball Officials Manual

page 11

1.4.3.C. Should a fight occur, use your voice and whistle to gain the attention of players.

1.4.3.D. Do not touch, hold or grab players - both for your own safety and for liability concerns.

1.4.3.E. One official should remain away from the action and observe non-participating players and bench personel.

Clear enough?

[Refhoop]

Originally Posted by TimTaylor

Maybe you should read your books.

NFHS 2015-2017 Basketball Officials Manual

page 11

1.4.3.C. Should a fight occur, use your voice and whistle to gain the attention of players.

1.4.3.D. Do not touch, hold or grab players - both for your own safety and for liability concerns.

1.4.3.E. One official should remain away from the action and observe non-participating players and bench personel.

Clear enough?

Nice. This principle made its way up from the last page of the officials manual to page 11 this year.