The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 18, 2015, 11:04pm
Ok is the new good
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 654
FT Shooter Fouled

A1 is shooting 2....B1 commits a Hard Foul on A1 who has not left her spot on FT line and ends up on the floor.

The contact is deemed excessive as B1 was going with her bottom right at A1's knee.

Question:

1) If this happens after the 1st FT..is this a Technical Foul?

2) If this happens after 2nd FT..is this an Intentional Foul?
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 18, 2015, 11:10pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,016
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Rookie View Post
A1 is shooting 2....B1 commits a Hard Foul on A1 who has not left her spot on FT line and ends up on the floor.

The contact is deemed excessive as B1 was going with her bottom right at A1's knee.

Question:

1) If this happens after the 1st FT..is this a Technical Foul?

2) If this happens after 2nd FT..is this an Intentional Foul?
Assuming the contact rises to the level of a foul,

Is live-ball contact ever a T?

Is dead-ball contact (other than on or by an airborne shooter) ever not a T?

Are "Intentional" and "Technical" exclusive? Or, could this be an Intentional Technical?
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 18, 2015, 11:11pm
Dad Dad is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 849
Why would it matter if it was 1st or 2nd FT for whether it was intentional/tech?

Live ball on a FT
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 18, 2015, 11:13pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dad View Post
Why would it matter if it was 1st or 2nd FT for whether it was intentional/tech?

Live ball on a FT
Sure -- but *after* the FT (which was the question) is going to be a dead ball after the first FT and may or may not be a dead ball after the second FT.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 18, 2015, 11:18pm
Ok is the new good
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 654
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dad View Post
Why would it matter if it was 1st or 2nd FT for whether it was intentional/tech?

Live ball on a FT
My partner who is a Veteran Made the call and in our Post game discussed it.

He told me that after the 1st FT..ball is dead thus a "T"

After 2nd FT, ball is alive thus Intentional.

Is his thought process correct?
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 18, 2015, 11:18pm
Dad Dad is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 849
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
Sure -- but *after* the FT (which was the question) is going to be a dead ball after the first FT and may or may not be a dead ball after the second FT.
Seemed like the OP may have though dead ball on first FT and live ball on second.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 18, 2015, 11:31pm
Dad Dad is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 849
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Rookie View Post
My partner who is a Veteran Made the call and in our Post game discussed it.

He told me that after the 1st FT..ball is dead thus a "T"

After 2nd FT, ball is alive thus Intentional.

Is his thought process correct?
You post said deemed it excessive. That excessive statement in the rules only applies to a live ball foul, not dead.

I'd find it extremely hard to find a T on this play.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 18, 2015, 11:39pm
High Five Master
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Southwest Missouri
Posts: 669
From the description, I would be okay with an intentional. Not a T though. Seems it was a really excessive contact box out. No place for that, especially since fouls on FT and line violations on FT's is a POE this year.


I wish I had a cool signature
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 18, 2015, 11:44pm
Ok is the new good
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 654
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dad View Post
You post said deemed it excessive. That excessive statement in the rules only applies to a live ball foul, not dead.

I'd find it extremely hard to find a T on this play.
My apologies..What our Post game discussion focused on was that if the foul occurred after 1st FT..this is dead ball contact and a T. Since it actually occurred after 2nd FT it is live ball and ruled Excessive and thus Intentional

Last edited by The_Rookie; Fri Dec 18, 2015 at 11:46pm.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 18, 2015, 11:47pm
Dad Dad is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 849
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueDevilRef View Post
From the description, I would be okay with an intentional. Not a T though. Seems it was a really excessive contact box out. No place for that, especially since fouls on FT and line violations on FT's is a POE this year.


I wish I had a cool signature
I thought the only emphasis was the defense crossing the FT line before the shot hit the rim. FT shooter can't cross and no one can come in. What's this POE you're talking about?
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 18, 2015, 11:53pm
Dad Dad is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 849
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Rookie View Post
My apologies..What our Post game discussion focused on was that if the foul occurred after 1st FT..this is dead ball contact and a T. Since it actually occurred after 2nd FT it is live ball and ruled Excessive and thus Intentional
Could very well be intentional on the 1st FT also depending on when the contact was.

Was the girl just boxing her out and displaced her? For me it really has to be a windup hit on a box out for me to even consider a tech/intentional.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 19, 2015, 12:00am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,016
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Rookie View Post
My partner who is a Veteran Made the call and in our Post game discussed it.

He told me that after the 1st FT..ball is dead thus a "T"
That's correct -- it's an Intentional Technical Foul

Quote:
After 2nd FT, ball is alive thus Intentional.
Assuming the FT is missed, it's an Intentional Personal Foul. IF the FT was made, the ball is dead, so it's an Intentional Technical Foul.

And, in either case, if the contact was somehow before the FT Ended (see the rule on FTs to determine this), both are IP fouls.

Rule 4 is your friend.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:28am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 14,995
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
That's correct -- it's an Intentional Technical Foul



Assuming the FT is missed, it's an Intentional Personal Foul. IF the FT was made, the ball is dead, so it's an Intentional Technical Foul.

And, in either case, if the contact was somehow before the FT Ended (see the rule on FTs to determine this), both are IP fouls.

Rule 4 is your friend.
The above answer by Bob is correct.
You need to determine whether the FT was still in progress or over for the first attempt. For the second, you do the same, but realize that the ball remains live on an unsuccessful attempt.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 19, 2015, 03:29am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 14,995
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dad View Post
You post said deemed it excessive. That excessive statement in the rules only applies to a live ball foul, not dead.

I'd find it extremely hard to find a T on this play.
Not true. Otherwise we wouldn't have rule instructing us to ignore dead ball contact which isn't intentional or flagrant.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 19, 2015, 08:40am
High Five Master
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Southwest Missouri
Posts: 669
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dad View Post
I thought the only emphasis was the defense crossing the FT line before the shot hit the rim. FT shooter can't cross and no one can come in. What's this POE you're talking about?

I thought some of the emphasis was on contact as well. Maybe not actually a POE but it is mentioned within the flyer that comes out with rule books. POE was likely misspeaking on my part.


I wish I had a cool signature
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Faking Being Fouled APG Basketball 71 Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:50am
Fouled shooter recaptures ball TriggerMN Basketball 27 Sun Jan 15, 2006 11:42pm
Fouled at End footlocker Basketball 12 Sun Jan 16, 2005 08:38pm
Fouled out, not really Nevadaref Basketball 48 Mon Jun 07, 2004 09:21am
Coach attends to fouled, injured shooter Back In The Saddle Basketball 30 Mon May 12, 2003 05:03pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:23am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1