FT Trail Signaling

[bainsey]

Ever since NFHS allowed the players to enter the lane on a free throw's release, I found a new challenge when being the T for 2 man, or C for 3 man. Now, we have to be more conscious about a defender crossing the free-throw line before the ball hits the rim or backboard (delayed violation). This new kink throws me off a bit.

My question has to do with T/C signaling on the last or 1-and-1 free throw. I used to get my hand up immediately on the release. Now, I'm thinking about keeping the hand down until the ball hits the rim/backboard, and raise it immediately if there's no such violation (and chop in on the first touch), or extend the fist outward if there is a violation. In other words, don't signal anything until you know whether there's a violation first.

Thoughts?

[BatteryPowered]

I put my hand up on the release. On the one occasion where a defender violated by immediately breaking the plane of the FT line I just changed it to the delay violation signal. The throw was successful so the point was moot and L raised his hand.

Just seemed like a logical approach...but then I have been accused occasionally of having a twisted mind.

[JRutledge]

Sounds like something that is ultimately a personal thing. If you are comfortable with it, I am good with it either way. I would probably not even notice as most people have not noticed.

Peace

[Dad]

Don't stress your table out, get that arm up early. Hah

[bballref3966]

Originally Posted by Dad

Don't stress your table out, get that arm up early. Hah

Let's be honest, most timers aren't looking at our arm anyway. They're watching for when the ball is touched.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Ever since NFHS allowed the players to enter the lane on a free throw's release, I found a new challenge when being the T for 2 man, or C for 3 man. Now, we have to be more conscious about a defender crossing the free-throw line before the ball hits the rim or backboard (delayed violation). This new kink throws me off a bit.

My question has to do with T/C signaling on the last or 1-and-1 free throw. I used to get my hand up immediately on the release. Now, I'm thinking about keeping the hand down until the ball hits the rim/backboard, and raise it immediately if there's no such violation (and chop in on the first touch), or extend the fist outward if there is a violation. In other words, don't signal anything until you know whether there's a violation first.

Thoughts?

Put your hand up to deal with the clock and then respond to the delayed violation with the fist. Look at it this way:

*If the FT is missed it's not as though you'll be chopping time in. You'll blow the play dead.
*If the FT is made, the new T chops time in.

Either way, you won't have to chop time in so you might as well plan for no violation (arm extended, palm open), respond to the delayed violation (fist), then react accordingly (whistle or no whistle).

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Ever since NFHS allowed the players to enter the lane on a free throw's release, I found a new challenge when being the T for 2 man, or C for 3 man. Now, we have to be more conscious about a defender crossing the free-throw line before the ball hits the rim or backboard (delayed violation). This new kink throws me off a bit.

My question has to do with T/C signaling on the last or 1-and-1 free throw. I used to get my hand up immediately on the release. Now, I'm thinking about keeping the hand down until the ball hits the rim/backboard, and raise it immediately if there's no such violation (and chop in on the first touch), or extend the fist outward if there is a violation. In other words, don't signal anything until you know whether there's a violation first.

Thoughts?

I can observe players and hold my hand up at the same time, and so can you. Every captain's meeting I have with HS players I tell them that knocking the shooter off the free throw is not blocking out and a foul will be called.

College ball has been playing off the release for years (before I started officiating) and I never see college players knocking free throw shooters off the line.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

College ball has been playing off the release for years (before I started officiating) and I never see college players knocking free throw shooters off the line.

True, but entering the lane on the release has been part of the college game for a pretty long time. We're only in year two of this rule in NFHS, since its reinstatement, and we're not even talking about knocking the shooter, but merely crossing the FT line. Some coaches are teaching kids to box out the shooter, not knowing crossing the free throw line before the hit "cuts both ways."

Last night, my partner and I had this violation on a defender four times in our two games. The visiting coach (who had both games) didn't understand what we were ruling until I spoke with him at halftime of game two.

But, this is about the signaling. To me, it seems silly to get a hand up immediately, then out if there's a violation. The time frame is too small to do both. Now, it makes more sense to keep the hand down for a second, and raise it immediately on the hit, essentially declaring there is no violation, and start the clock on the chop. Or, signal the delayed violation, if there is one.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by bainsey

True, but entering the lane on the release has been part of the college game for a pretty long time. We're only in year two of this rule in NFHS, since its reinstatement, and we're not even talking about knocking the shooter, but merely crossing the FT line. Some coaches are teaching kids to box out the shooter, not knowing crossing the free throw line before the hit "cuts both ways."

Last night, my partner and I had this violation on a defender four times in our two games. The visiting coach (who had both games) didn't understand what we were ruling until I spoke with him at halftime of game two.

But, this is about the signaling. To me, it seems silly to get a hand up immediately, then out if there's a violation. The time frame is too small to do both. Now, it makes more sense to keep the hand down for a second, and raise it immediately on the hit, essentially declaring there is no violation, and start the clock on the chop. Or, signal the delayed violation, if there is one.

I don't see how you are getting that many violations without any being fouls.

I'm going to continue to raise my hand on the release because the only violations I ever get are for the shooter, which get an immediate whistle. On that rare occasion that I may ever get a defender violating the free throw line, it'll be accompanied by a balled fist, not a delayed violation signal.

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk

[Dad]

Originally Posted by bainsey

True, but entering the lane on the release has been part of the college game for a pretty long time. We're only in year two of this rule in NFHS, since its reinstatement, and we're not even talking about knocking the shooter, but merely crossing the FT line. Some coaches are teaching kids to box out the shooter, not knowing crossing the free throw line before the hit "cuts both ways."

Last night, my partner and I had this violation on a defender four times in our two games. The visiting coach (who had both games) didn't understand what we were ruling until I spoke with him at halftime of game two.

But, this is about the signaling. To me, it seems silly to get a hand up immediately, then out if there's a violation. The time frame is too small to do both. Now, it makes more sense to keep the hand down for a second, and raise it immediately on the hit, essentially declaring there is no violation, and start the clock on the chop. Or, signal the delayed violation, if there is one.

Everyone in the gym usually knows what I called, especially on "new" rules.

[Mregor]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Ever since NFHS allowed the players to enter the lane on a free throw's release, I found a new challenge when being the T for 2 man, or C for 3 man. Now, we have to be more conscious about a defender crossing the free-throw line before the ball hits the rim or backboard (delayed violation). This new kink throws me off a bit.

My question has to do with T/C signaling on the last or 1-and-1 free throw. I used to get my hand up immediately on the release. Now, I'm thinking about keeping the hand down until the ball hits the rim/backboard, and raise it immediately if there's no such violation (and chop in on the first touch), or extend the fist outward if there is a violation. In other words, don't signal anything until you know whether there's a violation first.

Thoughts?

I think you are worrying about it too much. I don't see it happening more than once a year. Just put hand up and change to the delay if it's needed. Just like a 3 pt attempt when you mark the 3 and the shooter is fouled; where you mark the 3 and just change the 3 fingers to a fist and put air in the whistle. Same philosophy.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I don't see how you are getting that many violations without any being fouls.

Really? I've had a couple of violatiosn this year, but noting close to a foul (on this play). It's a violation to cross; it's not a foul until there's contact that creates an advantage.

[Rich]

The hand still goes up on the release. That mechanic hasn't changed in the 29 years I've worked....including the 4 years in the 90s this was a rule.

[BlueDevilRef]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Really? I've had a couple of violatiosn this year, but noting close to a foul (on this play). It's a violation to cross; it's not a foul until there's contact that creates an advantage.

Had two today. Both home team in A game and coach didn't know the rule. This was a junior high game but have been seeing it pretty regular. Coaches haven't changed their ways yet on boxing out the shooter and it's a violation if they cross before shot hits rim


I wish I had a cool signature

[HokiePaul]

Definatly challenging in 2 man ... If the violation doesn't happen immediately, I'm shifting to the ball at the rim to make sure it hits and there are no violations.

Is there anything that says/suggests that the delayed violation has to be the same hand as the chop clock signal?

I count with my outside/tableside hand and then raise that hand on the release. When I have a delayed violation, I've used the inside hand to indicate the delayed violation. I keep my outside hand up as a signal that the clock should not start on a miss and keep it up until after a whistle on a miss or the shot is good.