FT Shooter Fouled

[The_Rookie]

A1 is shooting 2....B1 commits a Hard Foul on A1 who has not left her spot on FT line and ends up on the floor.

The contact is deemed excessive as B1 was going with her bottom right at A1's knee.

Question:

1) If this happens after the 1st FT..is this a Technical Foul?

2) If this happens after 2nd FT..is this an Intentional Foul?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by The_Rookie

A1 is shooting 2....B1 commits a Hard Foul on A1 who has not left her spot on FT line and ends up on the floor.

The contact is deemed excessive as B1 was going with her bottom right at A1's knee.

Question:

1) If this happens after the 1st FT..is this a Technical Foul?

2) If this happens after 2nd FT..is this an Intentional Foul?

Assuming the contact rises to the level of a foul,

Is live-ball contact ever a T?

Is dead-ball contact (other than on or by an airborne shooter) ever not a T?

Are "Intentional" and "Technical" exclusive? Or, could this be an Intentional Technical?

[Dad]

Why would it matter if it was 1st or 2nd FT for whether it was intentional/tech?

Live ball on a FT

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Dad

Why would it matter if it was 1st or 2nd FT for whether it was intentional/tech?

Live ball on a FT

Sure -- but *after* the FT (which was the question) is going to be a dead ball after the first FT and may or may not be a dead ball after the second FT.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Sure -- but *after* the FT (which was the question) is going to be a dead ball after the first FT and may or may not be a dead ball after the second FT.

Seemed like the OP may have though dead ball on first FT and live ball on second.

[The_Rookie]

Originally Posted by Dad

Why would it matter if it was 1st or 2nd FT for whether it was intentional/tech?

Live ball on a FT

My partner who is a Veteran Made the call and in our Post game discussed it.

He told me that after the 1st FT..ball is dead thus a "T"

After 2nd FT, ball is alive thus Intentional.

Is his thought process correct?

[Dad]

Originally Posted by The_Rookie

My partner who is a Veteran Made the call and in our Post game discussed it.

He told me that after the 1st FT..ball is dead thus a "T"

After 2nd FT, ball is alive thus Intentional.

Is his thought process correct?

You post said deemed it excessive. That excessive statement in the rules only applies to a live ball foul, not dead.

I'd find it extremely hard to find a T on this play.

[The_Rookie]

Originally Posted by Dad

You post said deemed it excessive. That excessive statement in the rules only applies to a live ball foul, not dead.

I'd find it extremely hard to find a T on this play.

My apologies..What our Post game discussion focused on was that if the foul occurred after 1st FT..this is dead ball contact and a T. Since it actually occurred after 2nd FT it is live ball and ruled Excessive and thus Intentional

[Dad]

Originally Posted by The_Rookie

My apologies..What our Post game discussion focused on was that if the foul occurred after 1st FT..this is dead ball contact and a T. Since it actually occurred after 2nd FT it is live ball and ruled Excessive and thus Intentional

Could very well be intentional on the 1st FT also depending on when the contact was.

Was the girl just boxing her out and displaced her? For me it really has to be a windup hit on a box out for me to even consider a tech/intentional.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Dad

You post said deemed it excessive. That excessive statement in the rules only applies to a live ball foul, not dead.

I'd find it extremely hard to find a T on this play.

Not true. Otherwise we wouldn't have rule instructing us to ignore dead ball contact which isn't intentional or flagrant.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Not true. Otherwise we wouldn't have rule instructing us to ignore dead ball contact which isn't intentional or flagrant.

How is it not true? I don't really see the relevance as there are rules which apply to dead ball contact; this just isn't one of them.

d. Excessive contact with an opponent while the ball is live or until an airborne shooter returns to the floor

It's even the only highlighted part of this rule.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Dad

You post said deemed it excessive. That excessive statement in the rules only applies to a live ball foul, not dead.

I'd find it extremely hard to find a T on this play.

Not quite true. Excessive is part of the definition of intentional foul, which is how we determine whether to ignore dead ball contact or call a technical foul.

The only way the ball is live immediately after a FT is over is if the shot is missed.

Most of these fouls are going to actually occur during the free throw, not after.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by Adam

Not quite true. Excessive is part of the definition of intentional foul, which is how we determine whether to ignore dead ball contact or call a technical foul.

The only way the ball is live immediately after a FT is over is if the shot is missed.

Most of these fouls are going to actually occur during the free throw, not after.

The vet in the OP said T so it'd have to be dead ball.

I believe officials are misusing the word excessive and why it was put into the rule book and highlighted for that matter. There's even a case book where there is a BLOCK and then contact. The foul is ruled intentional because the contact was excessive. Just because something is excessive, more than normal contact doesn't mean I'm calling anything on a dead ball. Now, there's a lot in the rules on when to call a dead ball technical for contact, and I don't think this was the intent of putting the word excessive on paper.

I'm not saying excessive contact is an automatic pass. I am saying that ruling contact is excessive and an easy intentional during live ball doesn't mean I'm calling a tech during a dead ball.

I don't see the connection between a live ball intentional due to excessive contact and there being a T on the same play in dead ball situation. I don't believe this statement can be used by itself as a reason for a T on the OPs play.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by The_Rookie

My partner who is a Veteran Made the call and in our Post game discussed it.

He told me that after the 1st FT..ball is dead thus a "T"

That's correct -- it's an Intentional Technical Foul

After 2nd FT, ball is alive thus Intentional.

Assuming the FT is missed, it's an Intentional Personal Foul. IF the FT was made, the ball is dead, so it's an Intentional Technical Foul.

And, in either case, if the contact was somehow before the FT Ended (see the rule on FTs to determine this), both are IP fouls.

Rule 4 is your friend.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

That's correct -- it's an Intentional Technical Foul



Assuming the FT is missed, it's an Intentional Personal Foul. IF the FT was made, the ball is dead, so it's an Intentional Technical Foul.

And, in either case, if the contact was somehow before the FT Ended (see the rule on FTs to determine this), both are IP fouls.

Rule 4 is your friend.

The above answer by Bob is correct.
You need to determine whether the FT was still in progress or over for the first attempt. For the second, you do the same, but realize that the ball remains live on an unsuccessful attempt.