Umpire Signaling TD

[mcrowder]

Didn't want to hijack the other thread... so I'm posting a new one. We had a game last week where I was U and I signaled a TD... and was told, "Good job", and "Nice Hustle". It was completely appropriate. But before I tell you why... a question:

In your mind is there ANY situation where it is appropriate for U to signal a TD.

[Rich]

Originally posted by mcrowder
Didn't want to hijack the other thread... so I'm posting a new one. We had a game last week where I was U and I signaled a TD... and was told, "Good job", and "Nice Hustle". It was completely appropriate. But before I tell you why... a question:

In your mind is there ANY situation where it is appropriate for U to signal a TD.

I think there is -- on a fake or broken try for point that is run to the "open" side of the field.

[ThickSkin]

Originally posted by mcrowder
In your mind is there ANY situation where it is appropriate for U to signal a TD.

The correct answer for that is "it depends." When I was working on my masters degree, one of my professors told me that you WILL NEVER GO WRONG WITH THAT ANSWER. There may be a situation where an official slips and falls or is out of position to tell one way or the other. Then, I believe that it would be ok for the U to signal TD. On our crew, we try to at least get the U to give us a thumbs up so that we know the ball carrier had possession of the ball when he broke the plane.

[1AAUMP]

Umpires DO signal touchdown in Arena football.

[chris s]

Youth ball, LJ was an oldtimer ump, slow and LAZY on the wings.Dive play from about the 6, kid breaks plane, I'm saying, "he's in, he's in", look towards LJ, he's maybe at the five, I signal and he goes freaking ape-**** crazy on me.....gee thought I was helping him out????

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by mcrowder
In your mind is there ANY situation where it is appropriate for U to signal a TD.

I do not think there is any situation where you could unless you have a fumble and they see the recovery in the end zone. But as a general rule, I would not advocate having the Umpire signal TD. Because in most situations the umpire does not have the angle to decided if the knee was down or not. I think all the umpire should do is use a crew signal that helps the wings make a decision. I just see more going wrong than going right if the umpire signals a TD.

Peace

[Theisey]

Originally posted by chris s
Youth ball, LJ was an oldtimer ump, slow and LAZY on the wings.Dive play from about the 6, kid breaks plane, I'm saying, "he's in, he's in", look towards LJ, he's maybe at the five, I signal and he goes freaking ape-**** crazy on me.....gee thought I was helping him out????

### On a DIVE play from the 6 yardline? this kid must have had wings.

[KWH]

Originally posted by mcrowder

In your mind is there ANY situation where it is appropriate for U to signal a TD.

No!

[Snake~eyes]

I'm with Rut, U should not signal unless the LJ and HL fall down or some other crazy thing happens.

[SWFLguy]

35 year ump---
once-- and in a play-off game
the ball carrier lands in the end zone
at my feet with the ball---
I look over to the wings---
no signals, nothing-----
I mutter to the closest guy "make a call dammit"
then when he looks at me like the proverbial
deer in headlights
I go up with the TD signal !!!
some officials would claim that the U
NEVER gives signals, blows whistles etc.--
I wonder what world they live in !

[Mike Simonds]

As the umpire in a 5 or 7 man crew, I try never to blow my whistle unless: I see the ball in the possession of the runner who is down near my feet between the hashmarks. When you think about it, the ball is already dead anyway.

As for touchdowns, I never signal but if I see the runner in possession of the ball over the goal line I give a thumbs-up to the wing officials (very subtle with the thumbs close to my chest and I make eye contact). We discuss this in pre-game so all the wings have to do if unsure is to look at me.

This year I did signal touchdown once in a 5 man crew. Team is lined-up to go for the extra point. They run to the vacated Line Judge's side. The line judge is hustling to get over to the sideline and the runner, blockers and several defenders arrive near the goal-line at the same time. Runner dives for the pylon and knocks it over with the ball in his possession. I look over to the line judge momentarily. No signal. Then I signal a touchdown.

We discussed afterwards and the line judge was positive the runner was not out of bounds. The referee was also trailing the play and he had a good look from behind. The linesman said he did not mind the umpire making the call because the umpire was already on the goal line and much closer to the play.

However, I prefer not to blow my whistle and make these types of calls. But its good to be prepared for them just in case.

[mcrowder]

I agree with Mike there. As U, I spit out my whistle after the snap.

Here's the bizarre play that happened last week. A's ball on B's 40, an obvious pass play - 4 man crew. Both linejudges had broken with receivers. QB gets chased out of the pocket, and then R gets buried by a trailing DL. Just as QB nears the LOS, and I'm ready to satch for him throwing while across the line, he gets leveled, ball squirts out. Ref is somewhere in a pile. B picks it up, and we all run for the endzone. I beat him there by about 5 yards, and he's tackled as he goes over the line. Thank god I was down there, because it was CLOSE.

I signal TD, and look for ref - who is at about the 30, and see HL trailing him by about 10 yards. Not sure where LJ was.

We got to talking at halftime, having a good laugh about the play (mostly giving R a hard time for getting tackled), and R says, "That's the first time in 10 years that I would say it was right for U to signal TD."

PS - Mike - on a botched FG or PAT, isn't the mechanic for LJ to assume normal U responsibilities, BJ to stay on the back line, and U to assuming "normal" LJ responsibilities?

[Edited by mcrowder on Oct 4th, 2004 at 02:37 PM]

[BulldogMcC]

As the U, in the pre-game the R always asks if I will signal touchdown and I always answer, "Only if the runner is handing me the ball in the endzone and the wings haven't already gone up." Sad part is it has actually happened.

I have heard of a mechanic some other boards use with the U putting his fist to his chest if he sees the runner in, in case the wings get blocked out, but we keep getting chewed on for using unofficial mechanics so generally it is not used around here.

[schmitty1973]

Here's a situation :
1st and goal at the 1. QB sneaks in and gets in the endzone. U signals a TD and in the process of lifting his hands, he not only clocks the safety in the head with his hand, but the U also breaks his finger on the helmet. That's why I was told to never signal for TD if I was U.
(That would be funny to see though)

[ump76]

As U the only situatiuon I can see is if there is a fake or botched field goal attempt and the LJ is under the goal post.