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Old Wed Dec 16, 2015, 09:04am
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Wrong Starter in Book

1st time had this happen to me.

About 10 seconds after tip team B has ball to inbound on endline. Scorer's table blows horn and calls me over to let me know team A had a wrong starter in the book. I explain situation to both coaches and charge team A with an indirect (admin) T. Team B shoots two throws and we continue play at POI. Wrong numbered starter stays in game and I also let coach A keep his box since it was an admin T.

Handled correctly?? Any input.
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Old Wed Dec 16, 2015, 09:13am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickyss10 View Post
1st time had this happen to me.

About 10 seconds after tip team B has ball to inbound on endline. Scorer's table blows horn and calls me over to let me know team A had a wrong starter in the book. I explain situation to both coaches and charge team A with an indirect (admin) T. Team B shoots two throws and we continue play at POI. Wrong numbered starter stays in game and I also let coach A keep his box since it was an admin T.

Handled correctly?? Any input.
No. This has to be addressed before the ball becomes live. Coach can put in the correct starter and avoid the T or take the T and change the starter. Once live no T.

Then in HS T's are NOT POI. Ball goes to the offended team opposite table.

SEE Sit 3.2.2
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Old Wed Dec 16, 2015, 09:20am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickyss10 View Post
1st time had this happen to me.

About 10 seconds after tip team B has ball to inbound on endline. Scorer's table blows horn and calls me over to let me know team A had a wrong starter in the book. I explain situation to both coaches and charge team A with an indirect (admin) T. Team B shoots two throws and we continue play at POI. Wrong numbered starter stays in game and I also let coach A keep his box since it was an admin T.

Handled correctly?? Any input.
Was it the wrong starter marked in the book, or a player with an incorrect number that got changed?

Makes a difference as to whether or not a T should be assessed.
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Old Wed Dec 16, 2015, 10:14am
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Found my answer in previous threads.

Thanks for the help.
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Old Wed Dec 16, 2015, 11:48am
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Wrong starter should almost never be a T, especially at lower levels (not sure what level yours was) because once its been thrown up, its too late to penalize. The scorer has to be pretty quick on their feet to note that all 10 players on the court after the huddles break but before the ball is tipped are the same 10 marked in the book. While less likely, its actually easier in varsity games, as most of the time starters are announced, and the scorer could find out then.
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Old Wed Dec 16, 2015, 12:53pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frezer11 View Post
Wrong starter should almost never be a T, especially at lower levels (not sure what level yours was) because once its been thrown up, its too late to penalize. The scorer has to be pretty quick on their feet to note that all 10 players on the court after the huddles break but before the ball is tipped are the same 10 marked in the book. While less likely, its actually easier in varsity games, as most of the time starters are announced, and the scorer could find out then.
See Also 3.2.2e. If the scorer does recognize it before the ball becomes live we are to notify coach and give him opportunity to put the right player on the floor.
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Old Wed Dec 16, 2015, 05:37pm
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Originally Posted by BigCat View Post
See Also 3.2.2e. If the scorer does recognize it before the ball becomes live we are to notify coach and give him opportunity to put the right player on the floor.
Oh, that's right, forgot about that provision. Even less of a chance of a T!!
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Old Wed Dec 16, 2015, 08:47pm
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Let's Go To The Videotape ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCat View Post
See Also 3.2.2e. If the scorer does recognize it before the ball becomes live we are to notify coach and give him opportunity to put the right player on the floor.
3.2.2 SITUATION F: Team A designates No. 32 as a starter by the 10-minute
time frame prior to the game. In (a), as the teams take the floor for the opening
jump ball, the scorer recognizes that No. 34 is on court instead of No. 32 for Team
A and notifies the officials. In (b), following about two minutes of play in the first
quarter, a time-out is called. The scorer notifies the officials that although Team
A No. 32 was a designated starter, No. 34 started instead and is still in the game.
RULING: In (a), if Team As coach replaces No. 34 for the correct designated
starter, No. 32, no penalty is assessed. If Team As coach elects to start the game
with No. 34 instead of No. 32, a technical foul is assessed to Team A for changing
a designated starter. In (b), no penalty is assessed. The infraction had to be
discovered and penalized before the ball became live to start the game. Once the
ball became live, it was too late to penalize for this specific infraction. (3-2-2a;
10-1-2a Penalty)
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Old Wed Dec 16, 2015, 09:30pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
3.2.2 SITUATION F: Team A designates No. 32 as a starter by the 10-minute
time frame prior to the game. In (a), as the teams take the floor for the opening
jump ball, the scorer recognizes that No. 34 is on court instead of No. 32 for Team
A and notifies the officials. In (b), following about two minutes of play in the first
quarter, a time-out is called. The scorer notifies the officials that although Team
A No. 32 was a designated starter, No. 34 started instead and is still in the game.
RULING: In (a), if Team As coach replaces No. 34 for the correct designated
starter, No. 32, no penalty is assessed. If Team As coach elects to start the game
with No. 34 instead of No. 32, a technical foul is assessed to Team A for changing
a designated starter. In (b), no penalty is assessed. The infraction had to be
discovered and penalized before the ball became live to start the game. Once the
ball became live, it was too late to penalize for this specific infraction. (3-2-2a;
10-1-2a Penalty)
We need to get you updated books. This is sit. E in the 15/16 books.
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Old Thu Dec 17, 2015, 07:15am
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I Have Always Depended On The Kindness Of Strangers (Blanche DuBois) ...

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Originally Posted by BigCat View Post
We need to get you updated books.
The PDF casebook on my hard drive is from 2011-12. Any idea on how to get a newer version?
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Last edited by BillyMac; Thu Dec 17, 2015 at 07:24am.
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Old Thu Dec 17, 2015, 08:22am
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Old Thu Dec 17, 2015, 12:54pm
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For the first time in almost 30 years I had a scorer hit the horn as we were about to start the 4th quarter and inform me that one of the players on the floor to start the 4th quarter was not on the court at the end of the 3rd quarter. Just before he brought that to my attention, the coach of that team had told me he had a girl who was bleeding and he put someone else in the game for her. Which was the reason for the difference in players on the court. I was amazed that he even paid any attention to it.
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Old Thu Dec 17, 2015, 01:48pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitty View Post
For the first time in almost 30 years I had a scorer hit the horn as we were about to start the 4th quarter and inform me that one of the players on the floor to start the 4th quarter was not on the court at the end of the 3rd quarter. Just before he brought that to my attention, the coach of that team had told me he had a girl who was bleeding and he put someone else in the game for her. Which was the reason for the difference in players on the court. I was amazed that he even paid any attention to it.
I don't even know why that rule exists. I've never seen an AC come over to the table between quarters to see who the opponent would be sending on to the court.
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Old Thu Dec 17, 2015, 04:10pm
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No place in book

And how many officials (on court or at table) would remember who subbed in for who...which normally doesn't matter except at end of close game offense/defense substitutions. (Player that is subbed for and leaves game must sit a tick before returning.)
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Old Thu Dec 17, 2015, 05:27pm
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They Won't Take My Money ...

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Join the NFHS for $35. Full access to all NFHS publications via the Arbiter hub.
I can't join. Connecticut is on list of states where individuals can't join the NFHS. Connecticut is all IAABO. We get our NFHS rulebook, and NFHS casebook, from IAABO, not from the NFHS. I used to join the NFHS as a "fake" volleyball official but now that Arbiter and the NFHS have joined forces, the NFHS knows that I'm not a volleyball official.
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