Points off the board??

[ODog]

Agreed.

Allow me to ask Hartsy's followup question: What if she missed?

I would just readminister after we replaced the DQd player. Thoughts?

[BigT]

Originally Posted by ODog

Agreed.

Allow me to ask Hartsy's followup question: What if she missed?

I would just readminister after we replaced the DQd player. Thoughts?

agreed I would reshot.

[Hartsy]

Originally Posted by ODog

Agreed.

Allow me to ask Hartsy's followup question: What if she missed?

I would just readminister after we replaced the DQd player. Thoughts?

Until play is whistled dead V1 remains in game. Next dead ball following the miss, remove/replace V1 and then continue at POI, which would be possession arrow if whistle sounded before either team secured the rebound. This might get ugly if only one team reacted on the miss due to the horn sounding.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by Hartsy

Until play is whistled dead V1 remains in game. Next dead ball following the miss, remove/replace V1 and then continue at POI, which would be possession arrow if whistle sounded before either team secured the rebound. This might get ugly if only one team reacted on the miss due to the horn sounding.

What on earth is this you are describing?

You take a player with their 5th foul out as soon as it's discovered. You do not wait for the next dead ball.

[Hartsy]

Yes, its just a matter of WHEN the whistle blows. If you recognize the error before the rebound is secured, then POI. If after, it goes to team in control when whistle blew.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by Hartsy

Yes, its just a matter of WHEN the whistle blows. If you recognize the error before the rebound is secured, then POI. If after, it goes to team in control when whistle blew.

What whistle?

[ODog]

Harsty, B1 starts her motion, horn sounds erroneously, she misses, blow it dead. There is no rebounding.

Replace A1, readminister the 1-and-1.

Same scenario, free throw is made. Count the free throw, have A1 replaced, shoot the second.

[Hartsy]

Originally Posted by ODog

Harsty, B1 starts her motion, horn sounds erroneously, she misses, blow it dead. There is no rebounding.

Replace A1, readminister the 1-and-1.

Same scenario, free throw is made. Count the free throw, have A1 replaced, shoot the second.

Right, but if blown dead before rebounding, go to POI, not another shot. It will be ugly. Better hope she makes it, like what I saw last week.

[Hartsy]

The one you blow when you finally figure out that V1 had 5 fouls, or the one you blow when the horn sounds during play again. The NEXT whistle, regardless, will be the next dead ball.

It's not gonna be good no matter what. Especially on a miss. But in no case do you take a point off the board, or shoot another free throw.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by ODog

Agreed.

Allow me to ask Hartsy's followup question: What if she missed?

I would just readminister after we replaced the DQd player. Thoughts?

If the horn was sounded as she was shooting, then the R could invoke 2-3 and allow a replacement FT due to her being disturbed by the table crew.

If the ball had already been released when the horn sounded and she misses the shot, then the proper ruling is to use the AP arrow to award possession following the substitution, if the officials stopped play and recognized the horn. If the officials elect to ignore the horn, then play should continue until the ball is in the control of the team with the player having five fouls. At that point the scorer should sound the horn and play should be halted to DQ this player.

We had another thread on this just last week.

[ODog]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

If the ball had already been released when the horn sounded ...

Not the scenario.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

If the officials elect to ignore the horn, then play should continue until the ball is in the control of the team with the player having five fouls. At that point the scorer should sound the horn and play should be halted to DQ this player.

This solution makes no sense. If you know that there is a player on the court with 5 fouls that should have been DQed, why not stop play immediately and DQ them? Are you really going to allow them to play defense? What if they are the tallest player on the court, and end up blocking a potential game winning shot, when they shouldn't have even been on the court?

About the only reason I would delay a whistle to take care of the DQ is if the other team has the ball and is headed down on a fast break for an uncontested layup. Otherwise, I'm blowing it dead when I realize it, no matter which team has the ball, and making the replacement to get the player with 5 fouls out of the game.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

This solution makes no sense. If you know that there is a player on the court with 5 fouls that should have been DQed, why not stop play immediately and DQ them? Are you really going to allow them to play defense? What if they are the tallest player on the court, and end up blocking a potential game winning shot, when they shouldn't have even been on the court?

About the only reason I would delay a whistle to take care of the DQ is if the other team has the ball and is headed down on a fast break for an uncontested layup. Otherwise, I'm blowing it dead when I realize it, no matter which team has the ball, and making the replacement to get the player with 5 fouls out of the game.

The rule is that the scorer/timer should not sound the horn to call attention to a player illegally in the game until the ball is in possession of that player's team. If the scorer sounds the horn while the ball is live, officials are to ignore it if a scoring play is in progress. Otherwise the official can stop play to see why the horn was blown etc. Most times the officials will stop play to see what the scorer/timer's issue is...In Nevada's hypo, the officials who ignored the horn likely didn't know it was the player's 5th foul. If they do realize its the player's 5th foul they should kill it unless there is an immediate scoring play in progress.

note also--if the free throw is missed, horn sounds but doesnt affect players rebounding, i will hold the whistle until the rebound is secured. then see what the horn was about-unless scoring play in progress. i may not kill it right after the horn sounds. if you do there's no team control and you have to go to the arrow as Nevada says. depends on the situation.

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by BigCat

note also--if the free throw is missed, horn sounds but doesnt affect players rebounding, i will hold the whistle until the rebound is secured. then see what the horn was about-unless scoring play in progress. i may not kill it right after the horn sounds. if you do there's no team control and you have to go to the arrow as Nevada says. depends on the situation.

Are you saying if it doesn't affect players rebounding? Because I think it almost certainly would. I would much rather blow it dead and have to go to the AP arrow then deal with having to explain to a coach who's players didn't react in the confusion and have now lost possession of the ball. (Especially if a teammate of the free thrower rebounded and had a quick uncontested put back!)

[Dad]

Originally Posted by frezer11

Are you saying if it doesn't affect players rebounding? Because I think it almost certainly would. I would much rather blow it dead and have to go to the AP arrow then deal with having to explain to a coach who's players didn't react in the confusion and have now lost possession of the ball. (Especially if a teammate of the free thrower rebounded and had a quick uncontested put back!)

He said he'd blow the whistle after the rebound. If he saw no defensive players move then he could adapt accordingly.

On another note, I really doubt players are going to just give up after hearing the horn; especially if it's not an end of quarter/extra period situation.