Held ball during AP throw in

[The R]

B1 commits a violation and A1 is awarded the ball out of bounds. During the throw in A1 holds the ball through the boundary plane and B1 ties the ball up to a point that we have a held ball situation.

The AP arrow is pointing to team A. The ball is awarded to team A for another throw in. The same situation occurs and A1 holds the ball through the boundary plane. B1 again grabs and ties the ball up where we have another held ball situation.

Which team is awarded the ball?

Rules reference?

[Dave9819]

Originally Posted by The R

B1 commits a violation and A1 is awarded the ball out of bounds. During the throw in A1 holds the ball through the boundary plane and B1 ties the ball up to a point that we have a held ball situation.

The AP arrow is pointing to team A. The ball is awarded to team A for another throw in. The same situation occurs and A1 holds the ball through the boundary plane. B1 again grabs and ties the ball up where we have another held ball situation.

Which team is awarded the ball?

Rules reference?

I don't have my rule book here with me right this moment, but the correct ruling is that A1 would be awarded another AP throw-in.

Here is why:

1. A1 has the ball for the AP throw-in. B1 ties up A1. By rule, the throw-in never ended (check out the section in the rule book that explains when a throw-in ends).
2. Since the throw-in never ended, the arrow was never changed.
3. Since the arrow never changed, the resulting AP throw-in is again awarded to A1 (check out the section that lists when the AP arrow is set/changed in the rule book).
4. Once this throw-in ends, the arrow will be changed to point to Team B.

The answer to the question all comes down to knowing when the arrow is switched per rule, which also requires knowledge of when a throw-in ends.

[Raymond]

The exception would be if the violation occurred during a jump ball. The AP arrow would be set to B when the ball is put at A's disposal.

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[JRutledge]

6.4.5 Situation B:

During an alternating-possession throw-in, thrower A1 holds the ball through the end-line plane and B1 grabs it, resulting in a held ball.

RULING: Since the throw-in had not ended and no violation occurred, it is still A's ball for an alternating-possession throw-in. (4-42-5).

Peace

[The R]

Thank you. There was some debate among the natives on the point of legal touching the ball in bounds.

[Johnny Ringo]

Does the same apply if the ball is thrown in and simultaneously held by A2 & B2?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo

Does the same apply if the ball is thrown in and simultaneously held by A2 & B2?

No. In this case the throw-in has ended.

[BlueDevilRef]

I think this sucks. If nothing else has happened (fouls etc), this just punishes team B for playing astute throw in defense. If team A thrower in holds ball over the playing surface and you tie it up 15 times, they get to keep the ball each time it happens? Chalk this up to one of the worst rules of basketball


I wish I had a cool signature

[RefsNCoaches]

Originally Posted by BlueDevilRef

I think this sucks. If nothing else has happened (fouls etc), this just punishes team B for playing astute throw in defense. If team A thrower in holds ball over the playing surface and you tie it up 15 times, they get to keep the ball each time it happens? Chalk this up to one of the worst rules of basketball


I wish I had a cool signature

I agree...you would think that since B is legally in bounds and the ball has now touched a player in-bounds, the throw in SHOULD end. Maybe something for a rules change in the future

[just another ref]

All this is logical, but how many times have any of you ever seen this happen? Change the rule, (if anybody knew about it, but they wouldn't) and it encourages the defender to be more active in reaching for the ball, which would result in more technical and intentional fouls.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BlueDevilRef

I think this sucks. If nothing else has happened (fouls etc), this just punishes team B for playing astute throw in defense. If team A thrower in holds ball over the playing surface and you tie it up 15 times, they get to keep the ball each time it happens? Chalk this up to one of the worst rules of basketball


I wish I had a cool signature

I think the rule is fine. If you push the thrower back (or sometimes the defender) a little so this is not an issue, you do not have to worry about this even taking place.

I do not think it is enough of a big deal to even change the rule or interpretation.

Peace

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BlueDevilRef

I think this sucks. If nothing else has happened (fouls etc), this just punishes team B for playing astute throw in defense. If team A thrower in holds ball over the playing surface and you tie it up 15 times, they get to keep the ball each time it happens? Chalk this up to one of the worst rules of basketball


I wish I had a cool signature

If the defense had played so well, they would have taken the ball from the thrower. Instead, they only shared possession of the ball. They only got it half way. AP arrow is the right thing to do.

Plus, if they do it 15 times in a row, I'm buying a lottery ticket that day and will win the big prize!

[BryanV21]

If this is the worst rule ever, then I'd say the basketball rules committee has done a pretty damn good job, because this is something that you could go your entire officiating career and not see happen.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

If this is the worst rule ever, then I'd say the basketball rules committee has done a pretty damn good job, because this is something that you could go your entire officiating career and not see happen.

I came close. I ruled a held ball in a situation like this, but the original throw-in was not an AP throw-in.

And even that I have only seen once in 7+ years.

And yes, of course it was a 7th grade girls game. I mean, seriously....where else?

[HokiePaul]

Originally Posted by BlueDevilRef

I think this sucks. If nothing else has happened (fouls etc), this just punishes team B for playing astute throw in defense. If team A thrower in holds ball over the playing surface and you tie it up 15 times, they get to keep the ball each time it happens? Chalk this up to one of the worst rules of basketball


I wish I had a cool signature

I think the rule that team A would keep the alternating possesion arrow if they commit a foul before the throw-in if completed seems more strange than the held ball situation (especially given that team A would lose the arrow for a violation).

That situatuation does actually happen every once in a while and almost always requires a trip to the table after the throw in for the foul to tell them to put the arrow back to the offensive team.