Another backcourt question

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Yes.

4-41-6: A tap shall be considered the same as a try for field goal, except as
in 5-2-5. (three tenths of a second or less).

Okay, so "batting" a ball is the same as a "try", hence it was in a player's control. I know the terminology I'm using is suspect, but the point is the ball was purposely batted into the backcourt. Let's see if I can explain it like a case play...

A1 in-bounds the ball to A2, who is standing in Team A's frontcourt. A2, seeing that a defender is closing in on him, knows he needs to do something to avoid a steal, so he bats the ball to the only open teammate he sees... A3, who happens to be standing in the backcourt.

From what's been said this is not a violation. However, the fact that A2 purposely batted the ball to A3 indicates a pass... and therefore some form of control.

The intent of the "tip" rule during an in-bounds play seems to be in reference to the ball accidentally being tipped into the backcourt, not purposely batted into the backcourt.

Am I making sense?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

Am I making sense?

Yes you are.

After a throwin, if the ball is tipped, tapped, or batted, even on purpose, to a backcourt teammate, there was never player control in the frontcourt, and thus, no backcourt violation.

If, on the other hand, after a throwin, if the ball caught with one hand, and it's trajectory is controlled to a backcourt teammate, there has been player control in the frontcourt, and thus, this is a backcourt violation.

The four elements for having a backcourt violation are: there must be team control (and initial player control
when coming from a throw-in); the ball must have achieved frontcourt status; the team in team control must
be the last to touch the ball before it goes into the backcourt; that same team must be the first to touch after
the ball has been in the backcourt.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Yes you are.

After a throwin, if the ball is tipped, tapped, or batted, even on purpose, to a backcourt teammate, there was never player control in the frontcourt, and thus, no backcourt violation.

If, on the other hand, after a throwin, if the ball caught with one hand, and it's trajectory is controlled to a backcourt teammate, there has been player control in the frontcourt, and thus, this is a backcourt violation.

The four elements for having a backcourt violation are: there must be team control (and initial player control
when coming from a throw-in); the ball must have achieved frontcourt status; the team in team control must
be the last to touch the ball before it goes into the backcourt; that same team must be the first to touch after
the ball has been in the backcourt.

Seems like a technicality that circumvents the intent of the "tip" rule, and thus should be fixed, but that makes perfect sense.

Thanks, Billy.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

Okay, so "batting" a ball is the same as a "try", hence it was in a player's control.

Not necessarily. Slow down big fella.

If a player tips, taps, or bats, the ball into the basket from a pass, or a rebound, or a throwin, then said player never had player control (although he can be charged with player control foul if he was an airborne shooter: 4-19-6: A player-control foul is a common foul committed by a player while he/she is in control of the ball or by an airborne shooter.)

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Not necessarily. Slow down big fella.

If a player tips, taps, or bats, the ball into the basket from a pass, or a rebound, or a throwin, then said payer never had player control (let's ignore airborne shooter for now).

Yeah, like I said, I know using the term "player control" made the statement iffy. But I couldn't think of, or was too lazy to, come up with another way to describe what I meant.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

Yeah, like I said, I know using the term "player control" made the statement iffy. But I couldn't think of, or was too lazy to, come up with another way to describe what I meant.

Don't beat yourself up. Your questions were quite logical, and we all knew what you were asking. Questions regarding backcourt from a throwin are always complex, especially after the NFHS gave team control to the throwin team for (only) team foul purposes.

Good posts. Nice thread.