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Old Thu Feb 02, 2006, 04:03pm
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Question

Hello, first time poster but always enjoy reading the board an d gaining knowledge. I'm a college freshman at Elon University, and am not certified. However I do several youth leagues back home, and if I wasn't at school and there weren't age restrictions, I would have become certified by now.

Anyway, to my question.

I know in order for there to be a back court violation, the ball and both players feet must be in the front court, in contact with the floor, and then one of those things must return to the back court, in contact with the floor.

Well I had a ref, who was certified, tell me that if Player A is in established front court position, passes the ball along the half court line (say 2 feet in front), Player B leaps from the backcourt, catches the ball in midair in the front court, and lands in the front court, it is back court.

The ball never broke the plane of the center line. What's the call? And lets say it did break the plane? Does that change anything.

My understanding is in situation A, where the ball doesn't cross that plane, no backcourt. If it does cross that plane (and touches an airborne player coming from the backcourt), backcourt is the proper call.

I know you guys hate talking about this stuff because it seems to come up all the time, but I just wanted the perfect picture on this so I have full understanding.

Thanks a bunch.
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Old Thu Feb 02, 2006, 04:17pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by TussAgee11

I know in order for there to be a back court violation, the ball and both players feet must be in the front court, in contact with the floor, and then one of those things must return to the back court, in contact with the floor.
That's not quite right. The "three points rule" (ball and both feet in the frontcourt) only applies when a player is dribbling from backcourt to frontcourt and only tells you when the player (and therefore the ball) has frontcourt status.

Quote:

Well I had a ref, who was certified, tell me that if Player A is in established front court position, passes the ball along the half court line (say 2 feet in front), Player B leaps from the backcourt, catches the ball in midair in the front court, and lands in the front court, it is back court.
Using NCAA rules:

If A1 attempts a pass from anywhere on the court, then B1 jumps from B's backcourt, intercepts the pass, and lands in B's frontcourt, it is not a backcourt violation. This is because the rules say explicitly that this is not a backcourt violation.

However, if B2 attempts a pass from B's frontcourt, then B1 jumps from B's backcourt, catches the pass, and lands in B's frontcourt, it is a backcourt violation.

That's because the ball attains backcourt status as soon as B1 catches the ball, then frontcourt status again when he/she lands.

Quote:

The ball never broke the plane of the center line. What's the call? And lets say it did break the plane? Does that change anything.

My understanding is in situation A, where the ball doesn't cross that plane, no backcourt. If it does cross that plane (and touches an airborne player coming from the backcourt), backcourt is the proper call.

A ball in the air retains its frontcourt/backcourt status until it touches something else. What part of the floor it is over has nothing to do with anything.
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Old Thu Feb 02, 2006, 04:25pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by TussAgee11
Well I had a ref, who was certified, tell me that if Player A is in established front court position, passes the ball along the half court line (say 2 feet in front), Player B leaps from the backcourt, catches the ball in midair in the front court, and lands in the front court, it is back court.

Are players A and B on the same team? (If so, they should be referred to as A1 and A2.)

In that case, it's a violation -- The ball was in the FC when A1 was holding the ball and the BC when A2 caught the ball.

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Old Thu Feb 02, 2006, 04:45pm
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http://www.ncaa.org/library/rules/20...ball_rules.pdf

This web page should help. So much to explain. just read it.
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Old Thu Feb 02, 2006, 05:01pm
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Lightbulb Thanks for the help

Funny how I think I know so much about basketball but something so small can trip me up.

Love the website, I'll be watching! Maybe sometimes posting, but since I'm not certified, who am I?? Thanks guys.
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Old Thu Feb 02, 2006, 05:08pm
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Re: Thanks for the help

Quote:
Originally posted by TussAgee11
Funny how I think I know so much about basketball but something so small can trip me up.

Love the website, I'll be watching! Maybe sometimes posting, but since I'm not certified, who am I?? Thanks guys.
TussAgee11,
Welcome to the forum.

Who are you? Well, you seem to be an interested party.
That's enough to be here.
You keep askin', and we'll git some kinda answer for you.
mick

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Old Thu Feb 02, 2006, 06:03pm
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Breaking the divison line plane???

Just curious if any one has been hearing this in discussions of backcourt violations...or if you've had partners or others you've observed calling it?

I had a somewhat heated (but all in good fun) discussion about this with several people I work with. (None are officials.) They swore that "breaking the plane" of the division line once you're in the front court was a violation. They gave me personal examples of games they've watched where officials called this.

I gave the jumping from the backcourt to frontcourt examples...and suggested they may have missed a toe on the actual line...but they swore that they saw this called. I've never seen it called.
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Old Thu Feb 02, 2006, 06:28pm
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Nu1- that's ridiculous; I've never seen this called, either (ever). my reaction was, "typical fans," unless they're talking about kids rec ball and the refs that do those, or something. I'd a "called em" on it--you're co-workers that is.

TussAgee11- Welcome! Hey just cuz you've only done youth leagues back home doesn't mean you shouldn't be here. good job for doing so, keep it up, and when you get time: JOIN US!

laterz.
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Old Thu Feb 02, 2006, 07:05pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by TussAgee11

Well I had a ref, who was certified, tell me that if Player A is in established front court position, passes the ball along the half court line (say 2 feet in front), Player B leaps from the backcourt, catches the ball in midair in the front court, and lands in the front court, it is back court.

You are where you were till you get where you're going.
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Old Thu Feb 02, 2006, 07:22pm
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From CT

Originally from CT, freshman at Elon University (the bible belt of college basketball).

I guess a goodway to think of the backcourt is to think like backcourt is just out of bounds - treat it the same way.

Thanks for the welcome.
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Old Thu Feb 02, 2006, 09:32pm
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The answer to your question is that it is a back court violation because an airborne player's position is where he/she last touched the floor. In your question, you state that the airborne player last touched the floor in the back court. So when he caught the ball in mid air, he was still in the back court, by definition, by rule. It doesn't matter where he landed, it matters where he last touched the floor. The way it was taught to me was, where did the player leave his sneakers when he left the floor. If he left his sneakers in the back court, it is a back court violation.
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Old Thu Feb 02, 2006, 10:23pm
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Tuss,

As Mick mentioned, there is some confusion about whether player "B" is really A2 or B1.

Since you're curious about the backcourt violation, I'll give you a couple scenarios to think through. Hopefully thinking through this will help you own this rule. Okay, thinking and screwing it up a time or two. This assumes NFHS rules.

If you've been lurking long, you know there are 4 succinct (if not always simple) criteria you can use to help you sort out whether a backcourt violation has occurred. The list looks like this:

1) Ball must be in team control
2) Ball must have FC status
3) Team in control must be last to touch the ball before it goes to BC
4) Team in control must be first to touch the ball after it goes to BC

If you've met those four criteria, you've got a violation.

Assuming Player "B" is really a teammate to Player "A", then you've got...
1) The ball is in team control because Player "A" is holding or dribbling a live ball inbounds.
2) If Player "A" is "established" in FC, then the ball has FC status
3) Player "A" was the last to touch the ball before it went to BC
4) Player "B" was the first to touch it after it went to BC. The ball went to BC when it touched a player (Player "B") that had BC status (as Stan and robertclasalle mentioned, Player "B" is still in BC until he lands in FC).

So you've got a violation.

Assuming Player "B" is really an opponent of Player "A", then you've got a slightly more interesting situation. If you remember that A's FC is B's BC, then think through the criteria again...
1) When Player "B" catches the ball, he established team contol
2) He left the ground in his FC, thus the ball has attained FC status
3) He was the last to touch it before it went to BC
4) He's still touching when he lands in his BC

So that would normally be a violation. Except...

There's an exception for this very case: "A player from the team not in control (defensive player or during a jump ball or throw-in) may legally jump from his/her frontcourt, secure control of the ball with both feet off the floor and return to the floor with one or both feet in the backcourt. The player may make a normal landing and it makes no difference whether the first foot down is in the frontcourt or backcourt."

So if Player "B" is an opponent, then you have no violation. Got all that?
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