NCAAW Shot Clock Violation - Throw In Spot

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Read the definition of ball location. A pass or try in flight has the location of where the ball last touched the court or a player.

The bolded and underlined text above is incorrect by rule in NCAA-M. Not sure about NCAA-W.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by johnny d

The bolded and underlined text above is incorrect by rule in NCAA-M. Not sure about NCAA-W.

7-5.1.a.1 is the same in both, I think:

1. A ball that is not in contact with a player or the playing court retains
the same status as when it was last in contact with a player or the
playing court. This does not apply to a try in flight.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by johnny d

The bolded and underlined text above is incorrect by rule in NCAA-M. Not sure about NCAA-W.

You are going to have to prove otherwise to me. Specifically, what are you claiming is the location of a ball in flight during a pass or try?

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

7-5.1.a.1 is the same in both, I think:

1. A ball that is not in contact with a player or the playing court retains
the same status as when it was last in contact with a player or the
playing court. This does not apply to a try in flight.

Bob, please don't forget that this is from the section specific to a POI throw-in. If you also include the sentence which immediately precedes what you have quoted, you will note that it states "the team that was in control" and that is why "This does not apply to a try in flight." is included in the next paragraph. The rules writers wished to be clear that this throw-in rule does not apply for a try as there is no team control.

"a. A throw-in to the team that was in control at a designated spot nearest
to where the ball was located when the stoppage occurred"
Bob's quoted passage now follows here.

[JetMetFan]

The last line of the penalty for a shot-clock violation reads as follows (NCAAW 9-2 through 12, PENALTY):

The ball shall be awarded to an opponent for a throw-in at a designated spot nearest to where the violation occurred.

In the case of a try that was released prior to the shot-clock horn but fails to touch the rim, the violation occurs near the basket. The designated spot nearest to where the violation occurred would be the end line. I can think of instances where the ensuing throw-in wouldn't be on the end line but those involve the try being blocked and falling below ring level in an area where the throw-in would take place on a sideline.

I don't have an NCAAM's rule book but if the rule is the same the wording will be as well.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

You are going to have to prove otherwise to me. Specifically, what are you claiming is the location of a ball in flight during a pass or try?



Bob, please don't forget that this is from the section specific to a POI throw-in. If you also include the sentence which immediately precedes what you have quoted, you will note that it states "the team that was in control" and that is why "This does not apply to a try in flight." is included in the next paragraph. The rules writers wished to be clear that this throw-in rule does not apply for a try as there is no team control.

"a. A throw-in to the team that was in control at a designated spot nearest
to where the ball was located when the stoppage occurred"
Bob's quoted passage now follows here.

But, that's the only spot (I think) where "ball location" is close to being defined in the NCAA book.

And, again, "ball location" specifically has (almost) nothing to do with a shot clock violation (or I think, any other violation) -- it's the spot of the violation.

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

You are going to have to prove otherwise to me. Specifically, what are you claiming is the location of a ball in flight during a pass or try?



Bob, please don't forget that this is from the section specific to a POI throw-in. If you also include the sentence which immediately precedes what you have quoted, you will note that it states "the team that was in control" and that is why "This does not apply to a try in flight." is included in the next paragraph. The rules writers wished to be clear that this throw-in rule does not apply for a try as there is no team control.

"a. A throw-in to the team that was in control at a designated spot nearest
to where the ball was located when the stoppage occurred"
Bob's quoted passage now follows here.

Bob provided the proof for you in black and white. This is the only spot in the NCAA-M book that says anything at all about the location of the ball while in flight for a try. You can try to limit this definition to determining the POI for a throw in, however, the case book ruling about where to put the ball in play for shot clock violations clearly indicates that NCAA believes otherwise.

My position is supported by a statement directly from the NCAA-M rule book. Your position is not. The burden of proof is on you.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

You are going to have to prove otherwise to me. Specifically, what are you claiming is the location of a ball in flight during a pass or try?



Bob, please don't forget that this is from the section specific to a POI throw-in. If you also include the sentence which immediately precedes what you have quoted, you will note that it states "the team that was in control" and that is why "This does not apply to a try in flight." is included in the next paragraph. The rules writers wished to be clear that this throw-in rule does not apply for a try as there is no team control.

"a. A throw-in to the team that was in control at a designated spot nearest
to where the ball was located when the stoppage occurred"
Bob's quoted passage now follows here.

i think they are saying pretty clearly that a try in flight does not retain the same status as when the ball was last in contact with a player. The second sentence modifies the first. Take a look also at 7-5.1d. If there is no team control due to a try in flight and try is unsuccessful the ball is awarded to the team entitled to the arrow at "spot nearest to where the try was unsuccessful." Also, see AR 90.