The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 06, 2015, 03:45pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 2
Live ball, dead ball, granting time outs

Rule 6.2.b doesnt totally explain "at the disposal of"

6.7.art 1. Says its dead after a goal is made,

So if a basket or final free throw is made by team A, at what point can team A still call a timeout?

After the ball goes through, the ball is dead, when is it live?

1. Ball bouncing and before team B touches the ball inbounds, prior to going oob to make a throw in??

2. Ball picked up by team B, but before going oob to make a throw in??


Thank you


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 06, 2015, 03:54pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,463
Welcome to the forum first of all.

The ball can only be at the disposal of the team that is entitled to do a throw-in. So when the ball is at the disposal of that team (the team that did not score) then only the team that is making the throw-in can request a timeout. Before then the ball is dead and anyone an request a timeout. And when the ball is at the disposal of the throw-in team, the ball is live. That time does not mean they have to even have the ball, but have had the opportunity to pick up the ball and begin a throw in. Or when the official starts their count which is supposed to start simultaneously with when the ball is at the disposal of the throw-in team.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 06, 2015, 05:16pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 22,934
Circular Reasoning ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
... Or when the official starts their count which is supposed to start simultaneously with when the ball is at the disposal of the throw-in team.
Circular reasoning. It works, but it's still circular reasoning.

When do we start a count? When the ball's at the disposal of the player.

When the ball at the disposal of the player? When we start a count.

Good explanation (below):

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
The ball can only be at the disposal of the team that is entitled to do a throw-in. So when the ball is at the disposal of that team (the team that did not score) then only the team that is making the throw-in can request a timeout. Before then the ball is dead and anyone an request a timeout. And when the ball is at the disposal of the throw-in team, the ball is live. That time does not mean they have to even have the ball, but have had the opportunity to pick up the ball and begin a throw in.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 06, 2015, 08:48pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,742
Indeed welcome to the forum. If you're new and preparing for your first rules exam, I think you'll find this forum to be a great study aide.

IRT your question, I would note that this is why most officials agree that Rule 4 (Definitions) is the bedrock for all other rules understanding.

See Rule 4-4-7d: A ball is at the disposal of a player when it is:
.....d. Available to a player after a goal AND (my emphasis) the official begins the throw-in count.

What is "available" is up to the new trail's judgment. Generally accepted practice is that, if the non-scoring team is slow to react after the score, we allow them a little time. If they pick up the ball, start counting. If they don't, and the ball is available and they're just sluggish, start counting only when it gets to the point of ridiculous*. Of course if the ball gets stuck under a bleacher or lost down a hallway, blow the clock dead in order to resolve that.

(* Maybe a little sooner at the end of a close game where the non-scoring team may intentionally be trying to waste time.)

Now, you asked about disposal WRT granting time outs. Most coaches who want to call time out after a score know that they have to do this immediately. Understand game situations and be ready for this. What I say next is unwritten but solid advice: if said coach is asking for the time out immediately after the score, but the non-scoring team is already gathering the ball and taking it out by the time you confirm who is calling the time-out and/or put air in the whistle, grant the time out. In other words, if the intent to call the time out while the ball was dead is clear, give that coach/player the benefit of the doubt.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Wed Oct 07, 2015, 07:49am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,016
A non-rules specific guideline:

When B is holding the ball OOB or could reasonably be expected to be holding the ball OOB (in the case where B "delays" doing so).

And, rules are with dashes (1-2-3) and cases are with dots (1.2.3). (This standard is right in the forward of the case book)
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Wed Oct 07, 2015, 11:09am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Kansas
Posts: 633
[
What I say next is unwritten but solid advice: if said coach is asking for the time out immediately after the score, but the non-scoring team is already gathering the ball and taking it out by the time you confirm who is calling the time-out and/or put air in the whistle, grant the time out. In other words, if the intent to call the time out while the ball was dead is clear, give that coach/player the benefit of the doubt.[/QUOTE]

*I like this good use of discerning judgement.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Continous motion (4.11) Live ball/Dead ball (6.7) Zoochy Basketball 1 Mon Jun 22, 2015 11:37pm
Live Ball Foul Called as Dead Ball Reffing Rev. Football 15 Wed Sep 09, 2009 01:30pm
Live Ball Treated as Dead Ball Foul GPC2 Football 9 Tue Aug 21, 2007 11:04am
Thrown Elbow - Live Ball vs. Dead Ball rfp Basketball 19 Sun Nov 12, 2006 05:15am


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:44am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1