Continuous Motion/Traveling

[crosscountry55]

Actually, while I would agree what you put in red is a false generalization, I don't think it's that far from the truth.

In the last year I've been trying to pay closer attention to when continuous motion begins, probably because I know that NCAAM officials have a tougher standard these days (what with how the "gather" and "upward motion" are determined and all). Seems like every time I make a call in the gray area and put the ball out of bounds, the critique I get is that he was in the act of shooting and that I should have put him on the line. So I would tend to agree that the general consensus is, "if it's even remotely close, err on the side of continuous motion."

[SNIPERBBB]

In Ohio, they want us to say that if the player has gathered the ball, it is the beginning of the habitual motion of a shot.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

In Ohio, they want us to say that if the player has gathered the ball, it is the beginning of the habitual motion of a shot.

Except that isn't always enough. What if they gather the ball in the backcourt, 75 feet from the basket? Or they're heading towards the the corner and not the basket in order make a bounce pass to a teammate cutting along the endline?

[so cal lurker]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

It's difficult but that's what the rule is. I misapplied it during a camp this summer and the observer called me on it. I rushed a bit after my whistle and blew past the fact A1 traveled once we were in the continuous motion portion of the play. Thankfully, it didn't affect the outcome and the observer was happy I knew I'd screwed up.

Huh? You don't have to decide if the foul caused the travel, you have to determine if the foul preceded the travel. As Mark posted, either kind of travel negates the basket, and neither negates the fact the foul was on the shot.

(I do get Rut's point that whether the travel was truly caused by the contact can be a factor in determining *if* there was a foul, but that's a different from giving the victim of the foul a free pass on the travel and allowing the basket to count.)

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

(I do get Rut's point that whether the travel was truly caused by the contact can be a factor in determining *if* there was a foul, but that's a different from giving the victim of the foul a free pass on the travel and allowing the basket to count.)

This only matters if the basket counts. It does not matter IMO whether you have a shooting foul or not.

Peace

[wyo96]

I had never seen this until last year when I called this is V Boys game.

A1 drove the lane and was in the act of shooting, B1 grabbed his arm and caused A1 to "double clutch" and take an extra step before the lay up.

I needed to improve my mechanics as I waived off the shot, showed the travel signal, (wrong thing to do!!)then showed 2 fingers for 2 shots. I caused some confusion with my mechanics, but got the play right.

Had to explain to both coaches why we disallowed the bucket, but were shooting two shots.

Great learning moment at our next association meeting.
@99% of the time A1 misses the shot, so you never have this situation.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

In Ohio, they want us to say that if the player has gathered the ball, it is the beginning of the habitual motion of a shot.

That just isn't true all the time

[Multiple Sports]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

In Ohio, they want us to say that if the player has gathered the ball, it is the beginning of the habitual motion of a shot.

Snipe.....

Be careful with the term "gather"......you could argue that a very talented player with large hands on a dribble drive to the basket could "gather" the ball as he puts his hand under the ball as he is going to the basket...Does that gather start his upward motion ? Is that part of his continuous motion ????

Just some food for thought......

[JRutledge]

I am still going to use the term. And it is just a point of demarcation. It does not mean it is an absolute or that other things cannot be done. But if it looks like a shot, it is a shot. If it looks like a pass or something else, it is a pass. The bottom line is that people wave off too many shots because they did not leave the floor. I am going to continue to encourage people to use the "gather" as a marking line to the call. Your experience will help out the rest.

Peace

[so cal lurker]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

This only matters if the basket counts. It does not matter IMO whether you have a shooting foul or not.

Peace

Now I am confused -- are you disagreeing with Mark and Bob and saying that if the travel was caused by the foul you ignore the travel and let the basket count?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

Now I am confused -- are you disagreeing with Mark and Bob and saying that if the travel was caused by the foul you ignore the travel and let the basket count?

Not sure why you are confused. Sounds like you are reading into too much of the discussion or what others are saying.

I am saying that you have to complete the process of the shooting motion. Once it is over, you cannot just throw the ball up and expect that should be apart of the shot and awarded points if the ball goes in the basket. But if you could not complete that process and shoot, then you will be awarded shots appropriately, just not a basket if that time has ended. Kind of like an airborne shooter that is fouled, chooses not to release the ball and has now come back to the floor with the ball. You do not give the shooter one or two more jumps to make a shot after being fouled.

Peace

[billyu2]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am still going to use the term. And it is just a point of demarcation. It does not mean it is an absolute or that other things cannot be done. But if it looks like a shot, it is a shot. If it looks like a pass or something else, it is a pass. The bottom line is that people wave off too many shots because they did not leave the floor. I am going to continue to encourage people to use the "gather" as a marking line to the call. Your experience will help out the rest.

Peace

We use the term "gathering" as well. But is "gathering" the equivalent of "end of dribble?" If so, why don't we just use "end of dribble" as the point of demarcation. Or, is there a difference between the two that has not been explained to us by NFHS?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Multiple Sports

Snipe.....

Be careful with the term "gather"......you could argue that a very talented player with large hands on a dribble drive to the basket could "gather" the ball as he puts his hand under the ball as he is going to the basket...Does that gather start his upward motion ? Is that part of his continuous motion ???? Just some food for thought......

Maybe not, but it doesn't matter.

Probably.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by billyu2

We use the term "gathering" as well. But is "gathering" the equivalent of "end of dribble?" If so, why don't we just use "end of dribble" as the point of demarcation. Or, is there a difference between the two that has not been explained to us by NFHS?

The term is more descriptive. If you say "end of dribble" people might consider a point before the gather as just that, the end of the dribble. Heck we have people that cannot even agree on when a pivot foot is established when we call or review a traveling play. So the gather is a little more clear as to when that part starts. The NCAA uses "upward motion" but even that can be associated with the gather as usually you have to gather a ball while on your way up to shoot a basketball. Honestly, it is mostly about he execution of the individual, but that is why we get paid the big bucks to make these decisions.

Peace

[SNIPERBBB]

Originally Posted by OKREF

That just isn't true all the time

It's not one of my favorite interpretations and directives, and I argue against it every time it comes up but this LCD thinking is hard to overcome.

If it's obvious that a player is doing anything other than shooting, it won't be a shot.