BOT question

[bsaucer]

R2 on 2B, no out. B1 bats out of turn. The defense appeals the BOT to the umpire after B1 reaches first. In each case, does R2 return to second base if

a) He runs to third on a third strike wild pitch?
b) He runs to third on a ball four wild pitch?
c) He steals third on ball four, not wild?

Would it make any difference in cases b or c if R2 were on 1B and ran to second on the pitch?

Another question: In BOT situations, should the umpire ever "help" the offensive team in determining who is the proper batter (even if they ask?)

[Rich Ives]

If the runners advance was NOT as a result of the batter's actions then he keeps the advance.

[nopachunts]

Only if the offense asks.

[rbmartin]

In each case, does R2 return to second base if:
a) He runs to third on a third strike wild pitch? NO
b) He runs to third on a ball four wild pitch? NO (unless 1st base was occupied)
c) He steals third on ball four, not wild? NO (unless 1st base was occupied)

Would it make any difference in cases b or c if R2 were on 1B and ran to second on the pitch? Yes. since his advance was technically forced due to the batter becoming a runner, his advance would be nullified upon appeal.

MLB 6.07(b) When an improper batter becomes a runner or is put out, and the defensive team appeals to the umpire before the first pitch to the next batter of either team, or before any play or attempted play, the umpire shall (1) declare the proper batter out; and (2) nullify any advance or score made because of a ball batted by the improper batter or because of the improper batter’s advance to first base on a hit, an error, a base on balls, a hit batter or otherwise.
NOTE: If a runner advances, while the improper batter is at bat, on a stolen base, balk, wild pitch or passed ball, such advance is legal.

[bsaucer]

Originally Posted by rbmartin

Would it make any difference in cases b or c if R2 were on 1B and ran to second on the pitch? Yes. since his advance was technically forced due to the batter becoming a runner, his advance would be nullified upon appeal.

Even if he ran on the pitch?

[rbmartin]

Originally Posted by bsaucer

Even if he ran on the pitch?

Yes, unless he safely arrived at 2nd before the pitch, he is a forced runner and thus must return to 1st.

[rbmartin]

Originally Posted by yawetag

With R1 and no outs, BR would automatically be out on the third strike, so the advance to 2B would not be nullified.

I agree with everything else, though.

Correct. I was referring only to scenarios B & C in which the improper BR recieved a base on balls.

[UMP45]

Originally Posted by bsaucer

R2 on 2B, no out. B1 bats out of turn. The defense appeals the BOT to the umpire after B1 reaches first. In each case, does R2 return to second base if

a) He runs to third on a third strike wild pitch?
b) He runs to third on a ball four wild pitch?
c) He steals third on ball four, not wild?

Would it make any difference in cases b or c if R2 were on 1B and ran to second on the pitch?

Another question: In BOT situations, should the umpire ever "help" the offensive team in determining who is the proper batter (even if they ask?)

They don't bat out of turn. They bat out of order. BOO

[bob jenkins]

OBR 6.07 Batting Out Of Turn

[Publius]

Originally Posted by UMP45

They don't bat out of turn. They bat out of order. BOO

The title of the rule is a misnomer, regardless.

It isn't illegal to bat out of turn; it is illegal to fail to bat in turn.

It is B3's turn to bat, but B4 bats. B4 has not committed a violation, but B3 has. Upon proper appeal, B3 is out.

[bsaucer]

Let's try this: Bases Loaded, two out. Improper batter strikes out on a wild pitch. Everybody safe.

a) If no appeal, does batter get RBI?
b) If appeal and proper batter called out, does run count?

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by bsaucer

Let's try this: Bases Loaded, two out. Improper batter strikes out on a wild pitch. Everybody safe.

a) If no appeal, does batter get RBI?
b) If appeal and proper batter called out, does run count?

a) who cares.

b) No.

[bsaucer]

Originally Posted by umpjim

a) who cares.

b) No.

I think the two questions tie together... Did the runner score because of wild pitch (NO RBI), or because the batter became a runner(RBI)?

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by bsaucer

I think the two questions tie together... Did the runner score because of wild pitch (NO RBI), or because the batter became a runner(RBI)?

I wouldn't use Rule 10 to figure out Rules 1 thru 9.
Wendelstedt says "a runner has advanced as a result of the batter becoming a batter-runner when he is forced to advance as a result of a base on balls, uncaught third strike, etc....."
If he is not forced as in Jim Paronto's NCAA ruling (I think he meant leave him 3B otherwise he would have said return R2 to 2B) but I'm not sure how OBR rules but previous posters say no advances when the batter becomes a batter-runner.

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by yawetag

If the manager asks me, I'll probably tell him. I wouldn't offer the answer, though. Of course, if he's smart, he'll know it's the next batter after the one that was called out.

B3 bats instead (and either strikes out or gets a single) of the proper batter B2. A pitch is thrown to the next batter which is B2. The defense appeals BOOT and you tell them that B2 is now the proper batter. B2 finishes his at at bat with either an out or a hit. The offense asks who is the next batter. Do you actually tell them B4 or B3 depending on the sit?