Batter interference?

[APG]

Teeth kicked in? There's been nothing even remotely close to that in my estimation.

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Sgt Siler

Hark Dulai is the UIC for the league hosting the tourney. His brother was the protesting manager. Hark was nothing more than a fan at that game. He replied to this post, clarifying information I had gotten wrong, including the catcher dropping the ball. Instead of taking the corrected information Hark gets bombarded because as a IUC he should "back the blue", among other things. I have since learned more information and yes the PU blew the call and yes the tourney officials dropped the ball (there was an attempt to protest).


My friend Hark Dulai is an outstanding little league UIC and HS umpire, working his way towards college ball. When he replies to this post to clarify the details he gets kicked in the teeth.

This is an umpire Forum and here is what your friend said

The worse part is the the four umpires on the field never got together to discuss the call. If you are going to have four umpires during an all star game you would assume at least one of them would know the rules.

I realize he is your friend but it is Hark who "blasted" the umpires who were present by saying that the "other" umpires should know the rules.

You said Hark works college and HS and therefore he should know first hand that your partner (s) do not interject themselves into the game unless there is a protest or the PU asks for assistance. There was not a protest nor did the PU ask for assistance so there was no need for the other umpires to get involved, yet Hark took exception and I can understand because his brother was coaching. "Too close to home"

In a nutshell we have a UIC (Hark) whose brother was the coach and we have yourself a friend of the UIC and when the replys were not to your liking , you call it "bashing" etc. when all were were doing is responding to the facts presented. Hark is the one who threw the other umpires under the bus by his comments.

Pete Booth

[MD Longhorn]

Wow.

If that was "bashing" I can't see how you survive a single day on the field.

[CT1]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Wow.

If that was "bashing" I can't see how you survive a single day on the field.

Much less a career as a LEO.

[Harkdulai]

Maybe our high school association is a little different but we are told to get your partners attention if a rule was misinterupted. We are told to try to get things right. I would still do things that's way. I don't know where this "umpires are always right" came from. I would rather learn from a mistake then just go on assuming I am right.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Harkdulai

Maybe our high school association is a little different but we are told to get your partners attention if a rule was misinterupted. We are told to try to get things right. I would still do things that's way. I don't know where this "umpires are always right" came from. I would rather learn from a mistake then just go on assuming I am right.

Since you put it into quotes, I'll ask, who here said "umpires are always right?"

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by Adam

Since you put it into quotes, I'll ask, who here said "umpires are always right?"

"I said it."

Happy............... Pappy?

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Harkdulai

Maybe our high school association is a little different but we are told to get your partners attention if a rule was misinterupted. We are told to try to get things right. I would still do things that's way. I don't know where this "umpires are always right" came from. I would rather learn from a mistake then just go on assuming I am right.

First off, what you hear from your high school association does not necessarily apply in a LL game. The rules and procedures have differences. What may be perfectly acceptable in a high school game may be totally inappropriate in LL play.

Yes, you should try to get things right. But in LL Tournament play, the proper procedure to start that process is for the manager to lodge a protest, not for an umpire who had no role in the play to come in and try to make his/her partner change the call.

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by Manny A

First off, what you hear from your high school association does not necessarily apply in a LL game. The rules and procedures have differences. What may be perfectly acceptable in a high school game may be totally inappropriate in LL play.

Yes, you should try to get things right. But in LL Tournament play, the proper procedure to start that process is for the manager to lodge a protest, not for an umpire who had no role in the play to come in and try to make his/her partner change the call.

Just to make sure I'm clear. I thought if you knew a rule was misapplied on the field you should get with your partner and correct it. However, if you are not certain of what your partner saw and thus whether or not a rule was misapplied than you should do nothing.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by umpjim

Just to make sure I'm clear. I thought if you knew a rule was misapplied on the field you should get with your partner and correct it. However, if you are not certain of what your partner saw and thus whether or not a rule was misapplied than you should do nothing.

Speaking strictly LL, which is the basis of the OP, here is what is written in the LL Rules Instruction Manual under rule 9.02(c):

"Keep in mind that the umpire who has made the rules decision is the only one who may initiate the discussion. Regardless of the experience or knowledge, no other umpire may force the discussion or overrule the decision. If a manager has a concern with a rules decision, he/she must take his/her case to the umpire who made the decision."

So you don't correct your partner on your own. You wait until he comes to you, either after a manager questions the call, or after a protest is lodged.

Again, that's what LL teaches. Other organizations may allow for another umpire to fix a misapplied rule. Maybe LL wants it this way because it has a well-defined process for dealing with protests.

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Speaking strictly LL, which is the basis of the OP, here is what is written in the LL Rules Instruction Manual under rule 9.02(c):

"Keep in mind that the umpire who has made the rules decision is the only one who may initiate the discussion. Regardless of the experience or knowledge, no other umpire may force the discussion or overrule the decision. If a manager has a concern with a rules decision, he/she must take his/her case to the umpire who made the decision."

So you don't correct your partner on your own. You wait until he comes to you, either after a manager questions the call, or after a protest is lodged.

Again, that's what LL teaches. Other organizations may allow for another umpire to fix a misapplied rule. Maybe LL wants it this way because it has a well-defined process for dealing with protests.

I agree that is the way it usually is handled but there a few situations that I wonder about. One example is your PU gives 2 bases on a pitched ball going out of play due to a brain fart. Nobody questions it and your PU doesn't pick up your "I got something signal". Do you leave it alone. Later in the game you might have to award one base on a pickoff out of play and be questioned on it.
I do know that Wendelstedt teaches that if your partner calls IFF when it's not correct by rule that you should immediately call and signal that there is no IFF.

[RPatrino]

I feel that all umpires on the field are equally responsible for trying to avoid misapplications of rules and protests.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by umpjim

I agree that is the way it usually is handled but there a few situations that I wonder about. One example is your PU gives 2 bases on a pitched ball going out of play due to a brain fart. Nobody questions it and your PU doesn't pick up your "I got something signal". Do you leave it alone. Later in the game you might have to award one base on a pickoff out of play and be questioned on it.
I do know that Wendelstedt teaches that if your partner calls IFF when it's not correct by rule that you should immediately call and signal that there is no IFF.

I had one person tell me, if you as the base umpire pointed at the ball, the IFF was actually called.

[Publius]

Originally Posted by umpjim

I do know that Wendelstedt teaches that if your partner calls IFF when it's not correct by rule that you should immediately call and signal that there is no IFF.

What's the signal for "No IFF"?

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by Publius

What's the signal for "No IFF"?

When it happens I hope you will come up with one. If it does happen, whether you call it off or not, the teams should know its not an IFF and maybe you get less grief if one of you has patented the "no IFF signal". Based on my experience, I will be doing the WTF or Oh shit signal, which nobody will be seeing. I don't think I have a verbal for that yet.