CWS game 2 starting pitcher windup?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

The rules say you have to be in one of two positions, and then the rules say what you can and cannot do when pitching from those positions.

NOTHING says you cannot use one set of motions from the set position with runners on, and another set of motions with no one on. What you're seeing in this video is a (somewhat unorthodox, but legal) set position.

It's not a set position.

It's a windup with the feet in the wrong position, a hybrid stance as defined by the NFHS.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Rich

Unless you live in an area where nobody calls it.

Rich:

It is called in Ohio H.S. baseball games. I called it myself twice on a particular varsity pitcher in the same at bat.

MTD, Sr.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Junior and I discussed this at the beginning of the H.S. here in Ohio and Michigan. We both agree that the NFHS got it correct for the wrong reason.

The NFHS POE concerned itself with the position of the Pivot Foot instead of concerning itself with the position of the Non-Pivot Foot. How the Pivot Foot is in contact with the Pitcher's Plate (PP) should not determine whether the F1 has engaged the PP in the Wind-up of the Stretch/Set position, but the position of the Non-Pivot Foot should be the determining factor as to whether the F1 has engaged the PP in the Wind-up of the Stretch/Set position.

Just our humble opinion. As MTD, Jr., would say: Peace! Out!

MTD, Sr.

P.S. Still love the Jimi Hendrix in the playing in the background of the video, .

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Rich

It's not a set position.

It's a windup with the feet in the wrong position, a hybrid stance as defined by the NFHS.

Can you direct me to that in the NCAA rulebook?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by umpjim

Interesting rationalization. Works for me. Can I use it in FED?

You could use that rationalization in FED, but this stance would be illegal in FED, as it's not a set by their rules.

[bob jenkins]

Can't tell from the video (the 30 seconds or so that I watched) whether the entire free foot is entirely in front of the pivot foot.

Note that college essentially gives the pitcher about 12" farther forward in which to place the free foot, compared with NFHS.

And, I would agree, it's often ignored, especially with no runners. Now if there are runners, (specifically R3) and the runners might be affectged as not being able to tell whether the pitcher is in the wind-up or set, that might be a different issue.

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Can't tell from the video (the 30 seconds or so that I watched) whether the entire free foot is entirely in front of the pivot foot.

Note that college essentially gives the pitcher about 12" farther forward in which to place the free foot, compared with NFHS.

And, I would agree, it's often ignored, especially with no runners. Now if there are runners, (specifically R3) and the runners might be affectged as not being able to tell whether the pitcher is in the wind-up or set, that might be a different issue.

CWS side view showed daylight between the two feet. This pitcher as with Cliff Lee you can tell which stance he is in, the windup or set, or as MDlonghorn says, the set or the other set.

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

You could use that rationalization in FED, but this stance would be illegal in FED, as it's not a set by their rules.

What FED set rule does this violate?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by umpjim

What FED set rule does this violate?

Free foot must be on or behind a line through the front of the rubber (to be in the wind up).

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Free foot must be on or behind a line through the front of the rubber (to be in the wind up).

But I'm calling it a set as per MDlonghorn and Rich Ives.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by umpjim

But I'm calling it a set as per MDlonghorn and Rich Ives.

Now you're confusing FED and NCAA rules.

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Now you're confusing FED and NCAA rules.

FED windup requires free foot to be on Pitchers Plate front line extension. OP pitcher does not comply with this.

NCAA windup requires entire free foot to not be in front of pivot foot. OP pitcher does not comply with this. We won't worry about squared shoulders.

Rationalization is that this pitcher is in the set. What FED set rule is different than NCAA?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by umpjim

FED windup requires free foot to be on Pitchers Plate front line extension. OP pitcher does not comply with this.

NCAA windup requires entire free foot to not be in front of pivot foot. OP pitcher does not comply with this. We won't worry about squared shoulders.

Rationalization is that this pitcher is in the set. What FED set rule is different than NCAA?

If the pitcher isn't in the wind-up, he's in the set. So if the "windup" rule is different then the "set" rule is also different. Maybe I'm just mis-understanding.

By rule, the pitcher shown in the video has his free foot in the set position in FED. However, his pivot foot is in the wind-up position. Thus, it's the "hybrid" in FED that was the POE this year -- and, apparently, enforced differently in different locales. Search on previous threads -- I'm pretty sure there were some pictures of the various feet positions and a discussion of them.

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

If the pitcher isn't in the wind-up, he's in the set. So if the "windup" rule is different then the "set" rule is also different. Maybe I'm just mis-understanding.

By rule, the pitcher shown in the video has his free foot in the set position in FED. However, his pivot foot is in the wind-up position. Thus, it's the "hybrid" in FED that was the POE this year -- and, apparently, enforced differently in different locales. Search on previous threads -- I'm pretty sure there were some pictures of the various feet positions and a discussion of them.

Why is his pivot foot in the "windup position"? It's almost parallel and in full contact with the plate. Thus according to MDlonghorn and Rich Ives he is in the set and does not violate NCAA windup restrictions. Without runners on he does what looks like a windup step back but both allow as part of his motion to pitch out of the set.

While my locale ignored the FED rule pre POE it was enforced strictly post POE. Even to the extent that we got an interp that a heel tangent to the plate or edge extension was not on or in contact with the plate. They had to edge the heel a little bit onto the white.