Base Abandonment on the Final Play

[rampro]

Dash,

My J/R is also 2008. On page 76 there is a Note in a separate box with the interpretation I stated.

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by rampro

Dash,

My J/R is also 2008. On page 76 there is a Note in a separate box with the interpretation I stated.

Thanks. It was right in front of me the whole time and I missed it.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Huh? The runners essentially gave up their running responsibilities by joining in on a game-ending celebration. How is that not considered "abandoning his effort to run the bases"? One could argue they were on their way to the dugout, but stopped along the way to celebrate. They certainly weren't postponing their effort to run the bases.

Also, there is verbiage in the NFHS case book that supports abandonment calls without the need for the runner to go all the way to the dugout or defensive position:
- Under case play 8.4.2 Situation C, there's a sentence that reads, "Upon reaching base a runner abandons his effort when he leaves the baseline."
- Case play 8.4.2 Situation V involves a runner who thought he was out when he really wasn't, and the ruling says, "When R2 began leaving the field, he should be considered as having abandoned his effort to return or advance, and shall be declared out."

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Both.

Abandonment is not an appeal at all ... it's called when it happens.
OTOH, this isn't really an appeal anyway is it... it's simply making a play on a forced runner who has not yet reached his base. Shame on defense for not doing so. They are not appealing a missed base... they are simply making a throw to a base for a force out, like we see them do all game long.

2012 Annual Interps, Situation 18:
In the bottom of the 8th inniing, the score is tied, with the bases loaded and two outs. B6 draws a walk and runs and touches first base. B1 (sic) trots in from third and touches home plate. B2, however, begins celebrating and never touches third base. RULING: All runners must legally touch the next base in advancing. If the defense LEGALLY APPEALS (my emphasis) while at least one umpire is still on the field of play, B2 is declared out for the third out. Since this out would be a "force" out, no runs would score and the game would continue into the ninth inning.

[JJ]

Which is different from Pro and NCAA, where the batter has to touch first and the runner from 3rd has to touch home. Doesn't matter what the other runners do if this is a game ending situation on a base on balls.

JJ

[CT1]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

2012 Annual Interps, Situation 18:
In the bottom of the 8th inniing, the score is tied, with the bases loaded and two outs. B6 draws a walk and runs and touches first base. B1 (sic) trots in from third and touches home plate. B2, however, begins celebrating and never touches third base. RULING: All runners must legally touch the next base in advancing. If the defense LEGALLY APPEALS (my emphasis) while at least one umpire is still on the field of play, B2 is declared out for the third out. Since this out would be a "force" out, no runs would score and the game would continue into the ninth inning.

That's just plain silly. If FED wants to disallow the run, then fine. But don't try to talk me into believing that it's a "force" out.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by CT1

That's just plain silly. If FED wants to disallow the run, then fine. But don't try to talk me into believing that it's a "force" out.

Why would it not be a force out? R2 was forced to third by BR's walk and chose not to go there.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by jTheUmp

And, in this case, the order of the appeals would make a big difference, wouldn't it?

R1 and R2 both miss 2nd and 3rd base, respectively.

If you first appeal R2 missing 3rd, then R1 missing 2nd, you'll get force outs for both, meaning the inning ends, no run scores, and we go to the 8th inning.

If you first appeal R1 missing 2nd, then R2 missing 3rd, you'll get R1 out on a force, but then you'll have removed the force from R2, which means that even though R2 will still be called out for missing 3rd, the run will still score and the game will be over.

RU sure the order of appeals would matter in high school ball? In HS softball, the order of appeals does not matter, as both runners are considered forced to advance. This is true even if R1 missing second is appeals prior to the appeal for R2 missing third.

As a side note, I disagree with the NFHS's rules on that as it is inconsistent with the ruling for a force out.

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by JJ

Which is different from Pro and NCAA, where the batter has to touch first and the runner from 3rd has to touch home. Doesn't matter what the other runners do if this is a game ending situation on a base on balls.

JJ

You didn't expect FED to be the same, now, did you?

Originally Posted by CT1

That's just plain silly. If FED wants to disallow the run, then fine. But don't try to talk me into believing that it's a "force" out.

If you cannot understand why it's a force out, then you have more problems than you think. I'd suggest you first go back and touch up on section 2.00 of the OBR book and study the definition of a force, which exists for an R2 with runners on first and second or bases loaded.

[CT1]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Why would it not be a force out? R2 was forced to third by BR's walk and chose not to go there.

That's exactly the problem. In the non-Fedlandia baseball world, R2 is NOT forced to advance on a game-ending award. Plus, the award is "without liability of being put out."

I'd rather see FED put an exception in the "how a run scores" section than call this a "force" out.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by CT1

That's exactly the problem. In the non-Fedlandia baseball world, R2 is NOT forced to advance on a game-ending award. Plus, the award is "without liability of being put out."

I'd rather see FED put an exception in the "how a run scores" section than call this a "force" out.

Isn't it already in 9-1-1, Note 2?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

2012 Annual Interps, Situation 18:
In the bottom of the 8th inniing, the score is tied, with the bases loaded and two outs. B6 draws a walk and runs and touches first base. B1 (sic) trots in from third and touches home plate. B2, however, begins celebrating and never touches third base. RULING: All runners must legally touch the next base in advancing. If the defense LEGALLY APPEALS (my emphasis) while at least one umpire is still on the field of play, B2 is declared out for the third out. Since this out would be a "force" out, no runs would score and the game would continue into the ninth inning.

The play (the OP) that I was referring to that you quoted me on was a batted ball --- playing at 2nd or 3rd on the runner who started on first or second base is simply playing on a runner before they reach the base they are forced to go to. It's not an appeal ... it's an everyday force play just like those we see 100 times a weekend.

[bsaucer]

Originally Posted by TwoBits

I think Bob is saying that, even if an umpire judges abandonment, the run still scores. However, if the defense appeals the play, the appeals in this case are force outs, and the run would not score.

Would this be a live ball appeal, or dead ball appeal?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by bsaucer

Would this be a live ball appeal, or dead ball appeal?

Well, if it's FED, I think it could be either. But, I don't really remember the OP and I didn't go back and look.