Base Running and Abandonment

[teacherspit]

Ok guys I need some thoughts here.

This happened about 5 years ago. And I have wondered whether I did the right thing.

Bambino National Regional. I'm at third.

Bases loaded, 1 out.
Batter goes yard.
R3 scores, R2 scores, R1 scores. Fans start yelling at R1 that he missed third. R1 retags home and starts back towards 3rd. BR is rounding 3rd.
I see what is about to happen and it does.
BR passes R1. I call BR out for passing preceding runner.

2nd out!

Coach goes nuts and starts yelling at me that R1 did not missed 3rd. I calmly said "Your right" but your Batter passed R1. He said no he didn't. I said yes he did. He said he tagged home plate. I said he retag home plate and started back on the 3rd base line to retag 3rd base. Thus he became an active runner again and your Batter was in Jeopardy of being out if he passed a preceding runner.
He then understood.

The coach told R1 to go to the dugout after hearing that I said he did not miss 3rd base. R1 did not go back to 3rd nor did he go back and tag home.
He went directly to the dugout.

I saw this but did not act. I figured that this was an appeal play for the Defensive coach.

But as the years have gone by. I am wondering if the Abandoment rule should have been applied by me. And the R1 be called out as soon as he stepped into the dugout.

I almost called it. But the coach was mad and his parents were mad at each other. I thought that I was going to have to throw out some of his parents because they were getting ready to come on the field after him.

Since the team was down 8 runs and it was the bottom of the 5th. I didn't want to throw more gas on the fire.
But if the Defensive coach had appealed. I would have surely called the R1 out.
Grand Slam, two runs , two outs.!

Unbelievable, but s happens!

[DG]

Did you count R1's run after he retouched Home and then went to the dugout?

[Gee]

Short answer. Once R1 touched home he has legally scored a run he is no longer a runner nor is he considered a participant in the on going action. Score the run and get him off the field. Grand slam, four runs, no outs. Play.... G.

[teacherspit]

R1 retouched home to go back to third because he thougth he had missed third base. He has that option as long as a following runner had not crossed the plate behind him. Which in this case the Batter Runner had not.
The correct call was made on the Batter Runner for passing R1 after he had retraced his path back to third.

What I want to know is that since R1 did not go back and retouch 3rd base nor did he go back and cross home plate.
Should I have called him out for abandonment or is it an appeal play?

[Gee]

One more time Teach, by the numbers.

#1. Please read OBR 4.09.

HOW A TEAM SCORES. (a) One run shall be scored each time a runner legally advances to and touches first, second, third and home base before three men are put out to end the inning.

Your R1 has done that according to your post. Next:


#2 Please read OBR 5.06.

When a batter becomes a runner and touches all bases legally he shall score one run for his team. A run legally scored cannot be nullified by subsequent action of the runner, such as but not limited to an effort to return to third base in the belief that he had left the base before a caught fly ball.

Rest my case. G.

[Atl Blue]

R1 could NOT touch home and retrace his path to 3B, even if he had missed 3B. Once he touched home, he's done, he can't go back again.

By doing so, the ONLY thing he could be called for is interference, but that would require a play going on, and since the ball was over the fence, we obviously had no play, therefore no interference.

In your case, if R1 had missed 3B, even if R1 had retouched home, then retouched 3B, the retouch was illegal, and R1 would still be out on appeal. But since he didn't, this is nothing.

Now, if your play had been about 2B and 3B instead of 3B and HP, then yes, abandonment would have been a proper call for a runner that left the bases and headed to the dugout.

But in your case, it wasn't an issue.

[Rich]

Originally posted by Gee
One more time Teach, by the numbers.

#1. Please read OBR 4.09.

HOW A TEAM SCORES. (a) One run shall be scored each time a runner legally advances to and touches first, second, third and home base before three men are put out to end the inning.

Your R1 has done that according to your post. Next:


#2 Please read OBR 5.06.

When a batter becomes a runner and touches all bases legally he shall score one run for his team. A run legally scored cannot be nullified by subsequent action of the runner, such as but not limited to an effort to return to third base in the belief that he had left the base before a caught fly ball.

Rest my case. G.

What Gee said. No offense intended, teach, but how often DO you read your rulebook?

--Rich

[cbfoulds]

Atl. Blue: Right about can't go back under these circumstances, as ball is dead (OBR 7.10, A/R 2); otherwise- See 5.06 (note), quoted above - IF HE MISSED, not only can he go back, he must, or he's out on appeal; and relevent to this thread, his BR is in jeopardy of passing. However:

Sorry, teach, but you blew the whole call - since your runner DID NOT miss 3rd, BR should not have been called out for "passing"; and, as pointed out above, your runner could not have been called out on appeal OR for "abandonment", SINCE HE TOUCHED ALL THE BASES, incl. home.

[gxc]

Atl Blue is correct.

After a home run the ball is dead. Runners may not return to touch a base after touching the next base while the ball is dead.

In this case R1 touched home and cannot return to touch 3B, which means that BR can not be called out for passing R1. You blew it by calling BR out.

[teacherspit]

Thanks,
I guess I did.
I can always learn.
Rickey

[nine01c]

Teacher:

After five years, you can finally stop going to therapy over this. Let it go and chalk it up to "shed baggage," or an interesting trivia fact that you can use on "Jeopary" someday. At least you know your memory isn't going!