Base Abandonment on the Final Play

[BEAREF]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Abandonment is not a force out so the run scores but the defense could appeal to get the force outs and continue the game

Which is it?

[TwoBits]

Originally Posted by BEAREF

Which is it?

I think Bob is saying that, even if an umpire judges abandonment, the run still scores. However, if the defense appeals the play, the appeals in this case are force outs, and the run would not score.

[bsaucer]

Originally Posted by TwoBits

I think Bob is saying that, even if an umpire judges abandonment, the run still scores. However, if the defense appeals the play, the appeals in this case are force outs, and the run would not score.

Would this be a live ball appeal, or dead ball appeal?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by bsaucer

Would this be a live ball appeal, or dead ball appeal?

Well, if it's FED, I think it could be either. But, I don't really remember the OP and I didn't go back and look.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BEAREF

Which is it?

Yes.

[jTheUmp]

And, in this case, the order of the appeals would make a big difference, wouldn't it?

R1 and R2 both miss 2nd and 3rd base, respectively.

If you first appeal R2 missing 3rd, then R1 missing 2nd, you'll get force outs for both, meaning the inning ends, no run scores, and we go to the 8th inning.

If you first appeal R1 missing 2nd, then R2 missing 3rd, you'll get R1 out on a force, but then you'll have removed the force from R2, which means that even though R2 will still be called out for missing 3rd, the run will still score and the game will be over.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by jTheUmp

And, in this case, the order of the appeals would make a big difference, wouldn't it?

R1 and R2 both miss 2nd and 3rd base, respectively.

If you first appeal R2 missing 3rd, then R1 missing 2nd, you'll get force outs for both, meaning the inning ends, no run scores, and we go to the 8th inning.

If you first appeal R1 missing 2nd, then R2 missing 3rd, you'll get R1 out on a force, but then you'll have removed the force from R2, which means that even though R2 will still be called out for missing 3rd, the run will still score and the game will be over.

Correct.

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Correct.

You sure about that? I thought the force was determined at the time the base is missed, not when the appeal is made.

R1, R3, one out. The batter singles, R3 scores, and R1 misses 2nd base on his way to 3rd. The B/R is thrown out trying for 2. The defense appeals R1's miss.

Does the run score?

[TwoBits]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

You sure about that? I thought the force was determined at the time the base is missed, not when the appeal is made.

R1, R3, one out. The batter singles, R3 scores, and R1 misses 2nd base on his way to 3rd. The B/R is thrown out trying for 2. The defense appeals R1's miss.

Does the run score?

I thought that's was correct, too, and even remembered a thread about it recently. Turns out it was on the softball board. Still would like clarification in regards to baseball, though.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

You sure about that? I thought the force was determined at the time the base is missed, not when the appeal is made.

R1, R3, one out. The batter singles, R3 scores, and R1 misses 2nd base on his way to 3rd. The B/R is thrown out trying for 2. The defense appeals R1's miss.

Does the run score?

The play in the OP has nothing at all to do with missed base appeals... it's simply a force play on a runner who has not achieved the base they were forced to ... and in the case where R1 is put out first, R2 no longer has to go to 3rd base at all, and can't be forced at 3rd (or appealed for that matter...)

The OP does not say the runners run past their bases and then join the celebration ... they simply don't run to their bases at all. Completely different from your missed base appeal situation.

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

The play in the OP has nothing at all to do with missed base appeals

And my question to Bob had nothing to do with the OP.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

You sure about that? I thought the force was determined at the time the base is missed, not when the appeal is made.

R1, R3, one out. The batter singles, R3 scores, and R1 misses 2nd base on his way to 3rd. The B/R is thrown out trying for 2. The defense appeals R1's miss.

Does the run score?

This play is also correct.

There's a difference between an out made during "unrelaxed action" and the order of appeals during "relaxed action."

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

This play is also correct.

There's a difference between an out made during "unrelaxed action" and the order of appeals during "relaxed action."

I don't know what you mean by "correct." My question was: Does the run score?

[nopachunts]

Originally Posted by jTheUmp

And, in this case, the order of the appeals would make a big difference, wouldn't it?

R1 and R2 both miss 2nd and 3rd base, respectively.

If you first appeal R2 missing 3rd, then R1 missing 2nd, you'll get force outs for both, meaning the inning ends, no run scores, and we go to the 8th inning.

If you first appeal R1 missing 2nd, then R2 missing 3rd, you'll get R1 out on a force, but then you'll have removed the force from R2, which means that even though R2 will still be called out for missing 3rd, the run will still score and the game will be over.

And let the s***storm begin when the you tell the coach that the run still counts because he appealed in the wrong order.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by jTheUmp

And, in this case, the order of the appeals would make a big difference, wouldn't it?

R1 and R2 both miss 2nd and 3rd base, respectively.

If you first appeal R2 missing 3rd, then R1 missing 2nd, you'll get force outs for both, meaning the inning ends, no run scores, and we go to the 8th inning.

If you first appeal R1 missing 2nd, then R2 missing 3rd, you'll get R1 out on a force, but then you'll have removed the force from R2, which means that even though R2 will still be called out for missing 3rd, the run will still score and the game will be over.

RU sure the order of appeals would matter in high school ball? In HS softball, the order of appeals does not matter, as both runners are considered forced to advance. This is true even if R1 missing second is appeals prior to the appeal for R2 missing third.

As a side note, I disagree with the NFHS's rules on that as it is inconsistent with the ruling for a force out.