The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Baseball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #16 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 01, 2013, 11:59am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Germantown, TN (east of Memphis)
Posts: 783
Quote:
Originally Posted by MD Longhorn View Post
Why would an appeal not be a play?
OK, let's say an appeal is "a play".

PLAY: R1 & R2 at 1st and 2nd. Batter hits a base clearing triple. The defense believes that R1 missed 2nd and that R2 missed 3rd. They throw the ball to 2nd, tag the bag, and claim that R1 missed 2nd. Then, they throw the ball to 3rd and claim that R2 missed 3rd.

Should the umpire disallow the second appeal (at 3rd) because there was an intervening play - one of the criteria for disallowing an appeal? It would seem that would be the case if an appeal was considered "a play".
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 01, 2013, 12:09pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Katy, Texas
Posts: 8,033
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Emerling View Post
OK, let's say an appeal is "a play".

PLAY: R1 & R2 at 1st and 2nd. Batter hits a base clearing triple. The defense believes that R1 missed 2nd and that R2 missed 3rd. They throw the ball to 2nd, tag the bag, and claim that R1 missed 2nd. Then, they throw the ball to 3rd and claim that R2 missed 3rd.

Should the umpire disallow the second appeal (at 3rd) because there was an intervening play - one of the criteria for disallowing an appeal? It would seem that would be the case if an appeal was considered "a play".
OK, I see your point now. And I do see the apparent inconsistency with the word play.
__________________
I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, 'I drank what?'”

West Houston Mike
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 01, 2013, 05:31pm
Is this a legal title?
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by RPatrino View Post
Are you sure?
Quite.
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 01, 2013, 06:42pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Washington
Posts: 1,491
Send a message via AIM to RPatrino Send a message via Yahoo to RPatrino
Quote:
Originally Posted by Publius View Post
Quite.
Quite what? You can make an appeal to an unoccupied base while still in contact with the rubber? Please clarify.
__________________
Bob P.

-----------------------
We are stewards of baseball. Our customers aren't schools or coaches or conferences. Our customer is the game itself.
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 01, 2013, 07:30pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 329
If it will make Bob feel better, consider the NCAA rule 8-6b(10): It is not a balk for a pitcher, while in contact with the rubber (does not step back), to throw to an unoccupied base for the purpose of making an appeal play.

For OBR, consider 8.05 Comment: Umpires should bear in mind that the purpose of the balk rule is to prevent the pitcher from deliberately deceiving the base runner. If there is doubt in the umpire’s mind, the “intent” of the pitcher should govern.

I think that nearly always all the players recognize an appeal which is being made from the mound.
Reply With Quote
  #21 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 01, 2013, 08:09pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,016
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Emerling View Post
OK, let's say an appeal is "a play".

PLAY: R1 & R2 at 1st and 2nd. Batter hits a base clearing triple. The defense believes that R1 missed 2nd and that R2 missed 3rd. They throw the ball to 2nd, tag the bag, and claim that R1 missed 2nd. Then, they throw the ball to 3rd and claim that R2 missed 3rd.

Should the umpire disallow the second appeal (at 3rd) because there was an intervening play - one of the criteria for disallowing an appeal? It would seem that would be the case if an appeal was considered "a play".
An appeal is a play.

It's "not considered" ONLY for the purpose of making multiple appeals. It's really that simple.
Reply With Quote
  #22 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 01, 2013, 08:36pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Washington
Posts: 1,491
Send a message via AIM to RPatrino Send a message via Yahoo to RPatrino
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Reed View Post
If it will make Bob feel better, consider the NCAA rule 8-6b(10): It is not a balk for a pitcher, while in contact with the rubber (does not step back), to throw to an unoccupied base for the purpose of making an appeal play.

For OBR, consider 8.05 Comment: Umpires should bear in mind that the purpose of the balk rule is to prevent the pitcher from deliberately deceiving the base runner. If there is doubt in the umpire’s mind, the “intent” of the pitcher should govern.

I think that nearly always all the players recognize an appeal which is being made from the mound.
I will grant that technically, it is NOT a balk if the pitcher throws to a base for the purpose of making an appeal play. However, if the pitcher does not step directly to the base, or otherwise balks, a balk is considered a play and the appeal will be nullified.

So, to be safe, I recommend that a pitcher step back off the rubber prior to making a throw to a base for an appeal.
__________________
Bob P.

-----------------------
We are stewards of baseball. Our customers aren't schools or coaches or conferences. Our customer is the game itself.
Reply With Quote
  #23 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 01, 2013, 09:41pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Reed View Post
If it will make Bob feel better, consider the NCAA rule 8-6b(10): It is not a balk for a pitcher, while in contact with the rubber (does not step back), to throw to an unoccupied base for the purpose of making an appeal play.

For OBR, consider 8.05 Comment: Umpires should bear in mind that the purpose of the balk rule is to prevent the pitcher from deliberately deceiving the base runner. If there is doubt in the umpire’s mind, the “intent” of the pitcher should govern.

I think that nearly always all the players recognize an appeal which is being made from the mound.
Forget the deceit part. It's a stupid statement anyhow because the pitcher deceives the runner on purpose to get him leaning. It just has to be done without breaking the balk rules.

MLBUM: It is NOT a balk for the pitcher, while in contact with the rubber, to throw to an unoccupied base IF it is for the purpose of making an appeal play. (Note that the pitcher does not have to step back off the rubber to make an appeal play.) The emphasis is in the book.
__________________
Rich Ives
Different does not equate to wrong
Reply With Quote
  #24 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 01, 2013, 09:47pm
Stop staring at me swan.
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,974
Why is it so tough for people to simply let go of the fact that you can throw to an unoccupied base for the purpose of making a play or making an appeal?

It baffles me. Open the rule book. Is it lying?
__________________
It's like Deja Vu all over again
Reply With Quote
  #25 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 02, 2013, 08:06am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,016
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyg08 View Post
Open the rule book. Is it lying?
Well, not this time.
Reply With Quote
  #26 (permalink)  
Old Tue May 14, 2013, 10:45pm
Is this a legal title?
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by RPatrino View Post
I will grant that technically, it is NOT a balk if the pitcher throws to a base for the purpose of making an appeal play. However, if the pitcher does not step directly to the base, or otherwise balks, a balk is considered a play and the appeal will be nullified.

So, to be safe, I recommend that a pitcher step back off the rubber prior to making a throw to a base for an appeal.
Most of the balks I call during appeals are committed when the pitcher tries to step off prior to throwing to the base. They're always making movements committing them to pitch before they throw over. If they'd just throw to the base when an infielder has the ball instead of going through all the gyrations they do with calling time, taking the rubber, and stepping off they'd be way better off.
Reply With Quote
  #27 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 15, 2013, 07:25am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Publius View Post
Most of the balks I call during appeals are committed when the pitcher tries to step off prior to throwing to the base. They're always making movements committing them to pitch before they throw over. If they'd just throw to the base when an infielder has the ball instead of going through all the gyrations they do with calling time, taking the rubber, and stepping off they'd be way better off.
I agree with your last sentence but I've never seen a pitcher commit to home before stepping off when he knows he's going to throw to a base for an appeal.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Appeals njdevs00cup Baseball 12 Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:11pm
Appeals Jim Krueger Baseball 3 Tue Mar 08, 2005 01:37pm
Fed appeals joemoore Baseball 4 Mon Feb 25, 2002 12:21pm
ASA Appeals? Gulf Coast Blue Softball 3 Wed Apr 18, 2001 09:23pm
Appeals Gulf Coast Blue Softball 3 Wed Mar 28, 2001 12:17am


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:28am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1