Safe on 2nd, goes back to 1st

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by Rita C

Ignorant of which rule?

Rita

The rule that says he is entitled to 2nd base and is not out (correctly signaled by U2).

[Manny A]

Ok, now that I saw the play:

1. There is no balk on the pitcher. He did step toward second and did not throw, then disengaged and threw to third, all of which is legal.

2. There was no obstruction on F4. He backpedalled and got out of Segura's way at the last second.

3. How is Braun not out at second as soon as Segura slides back into the bag? Isn't Braun physically past Segura?

And Rich, there was at least one pitch delivered to Braun after Segura stole second, for Ball Four that put Braun on first (I assume only one pitch; there could have been more fouled off before the walk that the video replay didn't show). So are you still advocating that Segura can legally return to first base?

For the life of me, I don't understand how this crew allowed this to happen.

[Robmoz]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Ok, now that I saw the play:

1. There is no balk on the pitcher. He did step toward second and did not throw, then disengaged and threw to third, all of which is legal.

2. There was no obstruction on F4. He backpedalled and got out of Segura's way at the last second.

3. How is Braun not out at second as soon as Segura slides back into the bag? Isn't Braun physically past Segura?

And Rich, there was at least one pitch delivered to Braun after Segura stole second, for Ball Four that put Braun on first (I assume only one pitch; there could have been more fouled off before the walk that the video replay didn't show). So are you still advocating that Segura can legally return to first base?

For the life of me, I don't understand how this crew allowed this to happen.

R1 is not guilty of passing preceding runner R2 as simultaneous occupation is not passing.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Manny A

3. How is Braun not out at second as soon as Segura slides back into the bag? Isn't Braun physically past Segura?

To be out for passing you have to be ENTIRELY past the runner. Fully and completely. Until just after Braun is tagged, he was never fully and entirely past Segura's foot.

That said, look at 0:28 on the video. After Braun is tagged, Segura is OFF the base and tagged again.

For the life of me, I don't understand how this crew allowed this to happen.

I don't believe this was illegal. Describe the part of 7.01 to us that leads you to believe he can't return to first.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

To be out for passing you have to be ENTIRELY past the runner. Fully and completely. Until just after Braun is tagged, he was never fully and entirely past Segura's foot.

It is impossible for both to be touching the base in this way and rule that one has passed the other.

7.01 comment - once the pitcher takes his position R2 has title to second base and can't return to first. He can't go from being an R2 to being an R1.

I don't consider J/R gospel in any way, but in this case I think they're right. Segura should be called out pretty quickly once he heads back to first base.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Rich

It is impossible for both to be touching the base in this way and rule that one has passed the other.

Yes ... but Segura is no longer touching the bag about a half second after Braun was tagged. Had Braun not been tagged, he would have been "past Segura" about a half second later.

7.01 comment - once the pitcher takes his position R2 has title to second base and can't return to first. He can't go from being an R2 to being an R1.

A quote that is not exactly a quote... and the part that is not exactly a quote is the part I would disagree with - you've inferred something and then included it in the quote.

[MD Longhorn]

For the record:

Originally Posted by OBR Rule 7.01

A runner acquires the right to an unoccupied base when he touches it before he is out. He is then entitled to it until he is put out, or forced to vacate it for another runner legally entitled to that base.
Rule 7.01 Comment: If a runner legally acquires title to a base, and the pitcher assumes his pitching position, the runner may not return to a previously occupied base.

First ... Comments are meant to explain the rules, and not augment or change them. Second - many who read this (including the site referenced above) believe this comment is not meant to apply once the pitcher steps off.

More fundamentally, though... the RULE does not state in any manner that the runner cannot, in the normal course of play (for instance, while avoiding a player trying to tag him) move backward beyond a base he is "entitled to". The comment leads one to believe he cannot do this with the ball on the mound. I don't see how one can apply this rule or comment to the OP.

(Further ... apparently neither does MLB!)

[Rich]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Yes ... but Segura is no longer touching the bag about a half second after Braun was tagged. Had Braun not been tagged, he would have been "past Segura" about a half second later.

A quote that is not exactly a quote... and the part that is not exactly a quote is the part I would disagree with - you've inferred something and then included it in the quote.

I didn't quote anything.