Stepping Out of the Box W/O Timeout Granted

[bluehair]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

Exactly. Although 6.2.4 I seems to indicate that the penalty strike for stepping out is automatic, it is not, as supported by 7.3.1 D, F, G and H (and perhaps others).

6.2.4(d) _is a balk for not delivering a pitch.
6.2.4(d)1 is the exception to this balk. If F1 stops or hesitates his delivery this would be a balk if not for B stepping out of the box exception. This penalty is ONLY for causing the absolved balk (he hesitated/not continuous delivery) but he does deliver the delayed/hesitated pitch. One strike for stepping out of the box, one strike for causing an (absolved) balk.

And I agree that this double penalty should be saved for the when you REALLY want to make a point.

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by bluehair

This penalty is ONLY for causing the absolved balk (he hesitated/not continuous delivery) but he does deliver the delayed/hesitated pitch. One strike for stepping out of the box, one strike for causing an (absolved) balk.

I don't think so. One strike is for the pitch (called a strike regardless of location), the other is for violating 7-3-1 (delay of game).

[Only a fan]

The batter needs to step out with BOTH feet in order for the umpire to call an automatic strike (6-2-4-D) If he steps out with one foot or holds up a hand asking for time and delivers a pitch it is a strike. If he steps out with only one foot or holds up his hand asking for time and the pitcher stops, it is a reset and no penalty on either the batter or hitter. Only way to have two strikes called is for the hitter to step out with BOTH feet. page 41 of NFHS rule book

[yawetag]

Originally Posted by Only a fan

If he steps out with one foot or holds up a hand asking for time and delivers a pitch it is a strike.

I disagree. From the way I read the rule, the batter must step completely out of the batter's box for an automatic strike to be called on the pitch. In your cases above, I'm calling the pitch the way it is.

[Only a fan]

From page 41..."If the pitcher legally delivers the ball, it shall be called a strike and the ball remains live." This is referring to situations A, B, and C. Situation "A" is with runners on base and the batter steps out with one foot and the pitcher legally delivers a pitch to the batter.

[dash_riprock]

There is no automatic strike for stepping out with both feet (other than the called strike on a legally delivered pitch). The batter must also delay the game for the penalty strike.

[bluehair]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

I don't think so. One strike is for the pitch (called a strike regardless of location), the other is for violating 7-3-1 (delay of game).

I have one strike for violating 7-3-1. If you have second strike and its not for violating 6-4-1(d) (no balk to absolve), what other rule violation do you have ?

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by bluehair

I have one strike for violating 7-3-1. If you have second strike and its not for violating 6-4-1(d) (no balk to absolve), what other rule violation do you have ?

The 6-2-4-d-1 strike is not for absolving a balk, it is for the pitch. "...if the pitcher legally delivers the ball, it shall be called a strike and the ball remains live."

[bluehair]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

The 6-2-4-d-1 strike is not for absolving a balk, it is for the pitch. "...if the pitcher legally delivers the ball, it shall be called a strike and the ball remains live."

Yes, of course, but we were talking about when a second strike can be called. Lets assume that we have one strike for 7-3-1, delaying the game violation. Lets discuss the second strike. I am confused about RB versus CB passages.

RB 6-2-4(d)1- starts off,
If the pitcher with a runner on base stops or hesitates in his delivery because the batter steps out of the box...
...access a strike if hesitated pitch is delivered, no strike accessed if delivery is stopped, no balk in either case. But everything in 6-2-4(d)1 is predicated on a delivery that stops or hesitates .

But CB 6.2.4I is not consistant with RB 6-2-4(d)1. In the CB a second penalty strike is accessed without any mention of any hesitated delivery (the only condition that I see in 6-2-4(d)1 for accessing a second strike).

I don't understand where the CB gets it's justification for the second strike on a non-hestitatedly delivered pitch when B steps out of the box. If anyone can help me understand how CB 6.2.4I justifies the second strike, I'd appreciate it.

[dash_riprock]

It doesn't matter if he hesitates or not, only that if he does, it is not a balk. The strikes have nothing to do with the hesitation.

Here's my problem with the second strike: If the batter steps out with both feet, and F1 delivers a pitch (hesitated or not) I don't see how 7-3-1 could apply. The pitcher delivered the ball and it was called a strike. How did the batter delay the game?

[bluehair]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

It doesn't matter if he hesitates or not, only that if he does, it is not a balk. The strikes have nothing to do with the hesitation.

If there is no hesitation or stop, then none of 6-2-4 applies.If I have learned anything from participating in forums such as this, it is that one can only apply rules/penalties to those conditions specified in the RB. One can not carry the rule over to non-specified conditions, just because it seems to make sense to do so.

Maybe if I can help you understand why you get a strike for 7-3-1, you can help me understand how you get another strike for violating 6-2-4(d)1 or any another rule.

7-3-1 A batter shall not: delay the game by failing to take his position promptly in the batter’s box within 20 seconds. To me, the clock is still running even after the batter initially gets in the box. If he steps out again before F1 has delivered a pitch and the 20 seconds has expired, he has violated 7-3-1. And the rule also states that The batter must keep at least one foot in the batter’s box throughout the time at bat (except for the list of exceptions given). Once he is back in the BB, none of the exceptions apply, he can not again leave the BB. So you really have two reasons to bust him on 7-3-1. (the 20 second time limit and not staying in the BB).

6-2-4 are the Fed balk rules. 6-2-4(d) is the specific balk condition of F1 stopping or hesitating his delivery. 6-2-4(d)1 is the conditions when a balk under 6-2-4(d) is not applied, and it specifies conditions where an additional penalty is given to the batter. This exemption from the balk and the penalty associated with it are all predicated on the specified conditions of 6-2-4(d)1 the pitcher...stops or hesitates in his delivery.

If F1 did not stop or hesitate in his delivery, then none of Fed 6-2-4 balk rules apply, including 6-2-4(d) or 6-2-4(d)1. If anyone can find cause for a strike other than 7-3-1, I really want to know what it is. Please use a RB reference to justify a second strike.