3rd to 1st Move Becomes a Balk

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Wait a minute. From the article that was referenced above:

"Under a rule change imposed by Major League Baseball for this season, pitchers can no longer fake a pickoff throw to third base."

So, are they making ALL fakes to third base illegal? Or just the ones that are followed with a subsequent move to first base?

All fakes.

(The subsequent move to first as part of the 3-1 move isn't important because F1 disengaged and was merely a fielder at that point.)

[maven]

Originally Posted by Rich

All fakes.

A lot of confusion out there. For example:


"Major League Baseball is imposing a rule that pitchers who fake a throw to third base and then throw to another base will be charged with a balk, according to the New York Times."
MLB roundup: New balk rule set for this season - Yahoo! Sports

But when you look up the NYT original piece, you find this:

"Under a rule change imposed by Major League Baseball for this season, pitchers can no longer fake a pickoff throw to third base."
Baseball Rule Change Eliminates a Fake Pickoff by Pitcher - NYTimes.com

[Manny A]

{Groan...}

I'll just wait until the actual wording comes out.

[Rich]

I couldn't possibly care one way or the other.

[MD Longhorn]

I only care so I know how to call it next year. The results of this rule at our levels will be negligible.

The results at MLB is really just a time saver. The move is stupid and a complete waste of time at that level - it VERY RARELY gets anyone. With game times creeping up again, this might help getting it back toward 3 hours. (Do away with a batter stepping out more than once per AB would be another major step, imho).

[egj13]

Originally Posted by jicecone

SAY WHAT? Are you talking about the 3rd to 1st move? If you are the you didn't 'jump off your soapbox". you fell off. Please mention ONE game wher this wasn't called consistently, one. in alomost 30 years of umpiring, i can't recall ANYONE blowing this call, in games I have done or watched in person or on TV.

Even in the current rule (before any change) it was a balk if you faked towards 3rd and then wheeled to throw to first without stepping towards first. Umpires at ALL levels were not enforcing the step towards first and thus not calling the rule as it was intended to be called.

Here is the excerpt stright from the MLB rule book:

"Rule 8.05(c) Comment: Requires the pitcher, while touching his plate, to step directly
toward a base before throwing to that base. If a pitcher turns or spins off of his free foot without
actually stepping or if he turns his body and throws before stepping, it is a balk.
Apitcher is to step directly toward a base before throwing to that base but does not require him
to throw (except to first base only) because he steps. It is possible, with runners on first and third, for
the pitcher to step toward third and not throw, merely to bluff the runner back to third; then seeing the
runner on first start for second, turn and step toward and throw to first base. This is legal. However, if,
with runners on first and third, the pitcher, while in contact with the rubber, steps toward third and then
immediately and in practically the same motion “wheels” and throws to first base, it is obviously an
attempt to deceive the runner at first base, and in such a move it is practically impossible to step
directly toward first base before the throw to first base, and such a move shall be called a balk. Of
course, if the pitcher steps off the rubber and then makes such a move, it is not a balk."

So basically we as umpires weren't calling it consistently so baseball simply made it illegal at all times to take it out of our hands.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by egj13

Even in the current rule (before any change) it was a balk if you faked towards 3rd and then wheeled to throw to first without stepping towards first. Umpires at ALL levels were not enforcing the step towards first and thus not calling the rule as it was intended to be called.

Here is the excerpt stright from the MLB rule book:

"Rule 8.05(c) Comment: Requires the pitcher, while touching his plate, to step directly
toward a base before throwing to that base. If a pitcher turns or spins off of his free foot without
actually stepping or if he turns his body and throws before stepping, it is a balk.
Apitcher is to step directly toward a base before throwing to that base but does not require him
to throw (except to first base only) because he steps. It is possible, with runners on first and third, for
the pitcher to step toward third and not throw, merely to bluff the runner back to third; then seeing the
runner on first start for second, turn and step toward and throw to first base. This is legal. However, if,
with runners on first and third, the pitcher, while in contact with the rubber, steps toward third and then
immediately and in practically the same motion “wheels” and throws to first base, it is obviously an
attempt to deceive the runner at first base, and in such a move it is practically impossible to step
directly toward first base before the throw to first base, and such a move shall be called a balk. Of
course, if the pitcher steps off the rubber and then makes such a move, it is not a balk."

So basically we as umpires weren't calling it consistently so baseball simply made it illegal at all times to take it out of our hands.

There's so much here that isn't right that I don't know where to begin.

[maven]

Originally Posted by egj13

So basically we as umpires weren't calling it consistently so baseball simply made it illegal at all times to take it out of our hands.

As others have already pointed out, this account of the motivation for the change is incorrect. MLB doesn't care how you call your games or how anyone else might use their rules.

[bluehair]

Originally Posted by egj13

So basically we as umpires weren't calling it consistently so baseball simply made it illegal at all times to take it out of our hands.

I have never seen F1 fein to 3B when he didn't come off the rubber on this move, which made it legal (previously) for the now infielder to throw to 1B. If F1 didn't come off the rubber, I can't image an umpire not recognizing it and balking it for no other reason than the ugliness it would take to perform.

Can you describe a sitch where you actually witnessed this "inconsistency"?

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by egj13

So basically we as umpires weren't calling it consistently so baseball simply made it illegal at all times to take it out of our hands.

Sorry we aren't going to be able to help you.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by egj13

then
immediately and in practically the same motion “wheels” and throws to first base,

I think you don't understand what this phrase means. It does NOT mean the usual feitn to thrid then feint to first move you see.

[bluehair]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

It does NOT mean the usual feitn to thrid then feint to first move you see.

Exactly, it means that F1 did not come off the rubber on the initial feint to 3B. In reality, he hasn't feined to 3B, hasn't delivered a pitch, hasn't thrown to an occupied base (or has done so without stepping directly to that base...he initially stepped towards 3B) , nor disengaged properly. That is why it is a balk.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by egj13

Even in the current rule (before any change) it was a balk if you faked towards 3rd and then wheeled to throw to first without stepping towards first. Umpires at ALL levels were not enforcing the step towards first and thus not calling the rule as it was intended to be called.

I don't know about others, but I can honestly say I've never seen a pitcher execute this "wheel" motion the rule describes, where the pitcher steps towards third while staying in contact with the rubber, and then turn his upper body towards first while still staying in contact with the rubber and not stepping that way.

This has nothing to do with fixing umpiring inconsistency. It has everything to do with getting rid of a move that wastes everybody's time.

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by Manny A

This has nothing to do with fixing umpiring inconsistency. It has everything to do with getting rid of a move that wastes everybody's time.

Exactly whos time is being wasted here? That is a lame, sorry A** excuse for sucking up to the sportswriters. Commericals waste people time, will they do away with them, not a chance. How about we change the game to 3 balls and two strikes instead of wasting time for each at Bat. Play only two outs. No timeouts are allowed. What the heck, cut the game to 7 innings

A play that maybe happens once a game, sometimes, and is part of the game and the strategy of it is not wasting anyone's time. Turning off your TV or leaving early are your alternatives. However, one thing for SURE !!!!

"There No Crying in Baseball"

[egj13]

Originally Posted by bluehair

I have never seen F1 fein to 3B when he didn't come off the rubber on this move, which made it legal (previously) for the now infielder to throw to 1B. If F1 didn't come off the rubber, I can't image an umpire not recognizing it and balking it for no other reason than the ugliness it would take to perform.

Can you describe a sitch where you actually witnessed this "inconsistency"?

I am either dreaming or we have some bad umpires in here.

The pitcher would only have become an infileder if he stepped backward off the rubber prior to feining to third base. In a 3rd to 1st scenario the pitcher rarely, if ever steps off first. So since he stepped directly towards 3rd..without stepping off...and then wheeled to throw to first without stepping towards first ahead of the throw he now balked. The fact that he lost contact with the rubber when he feinted to third does not releas him from the requirement to STEP towards first before he throws there. Pull up some video...I bet you will be able to see that after feining to thrid, he then turned to throw to first WIHOUT STEPPING AHEAD of the throw...which is a balk.

Clearly no one on this board was calling it a balk hence the reason to need to change the rule