Pulled foot mechanic and timing

[jicecone]

"I guess that's an "I'll do it my way, you do it yours" sign off. Ok. A2D. I just don't understand why you would want to ignore the advice of the best umpires the game has to offer simply because I'm the one who brought it to you. Adds a whole new dimension to killing the messenger, wouldn't you say? Sheesh!"

Actually Warren, I dont understand why an official with all your experience can't understand that mabey your just not the authoratative person you think you are. "Adds a whole new dimension to killing the messenger, wouldn't you say? Sheesh!"

Have a good day.

[Warren Willson]

Originally posted by jicecone
"I guess that's an "I'll do it my way, you do it yours" sign off. Ok. A2D. I just don't understand why you would want to ignore the advice of the best umpires the game has to offer simply because I'm the one who brought it to you. Adds a whole new dimension to killing the messenger, wouldn't you say? Sheesh!"

Actually Warren, I dont understand why an official with all your experience can't understand that mabey your just not the authoratative person you think you are. "Adds a whole new dimension to killing the messenger, wouldn't you say? Sheesh!"

Have a good day.

Hmmmm. Sounds to me like you've got some sort of personal axe to grind. Could this be a case of sour grapes, or even envy? If you read my posts carefully you will note that I have NOT claimed any authority for myself. Instead I've only claimed authority for the professional umpires whose interpretations and mechanics I've reported, and who should rightly be considered "the best umpires the game has to offer".

Why is it that you are so anxious to press the view that I'm "just not the authoratative person" I think I am? How would YOU know what I think? Maybe you just don't like my style of writing. Fine. I won't lose any sleep over that. The fact remains, however, that you seem inordinately opposed to anything that I've said in this thread, when all I've actually done is to quote the rules and report the current professional view on the matter.

You may choose an opposing view if you wish. That would be your loss, and that of your colleagues, IMHO.

Have a nice day.

[Jim Porter]

Originally posted by Warren Willson
For the record I'll take the word of Jim Porter that he holds it by a small margin.

Oh goodness, no. You misunderstood. I'm not the record holder either, and never claimed to be. The person who started the record thread was rex. I did take part in the thread, and so did you Warren, along with Papa C. However, Ozzy and Garth were nowhere to be found. I just found it funny that those two guys were trying to decide which among them could take credit for the longest thread, and the answer truly was neither of them. I found humor in that.

Originally posted by Warren Willson BTW, please stop baiting Jim Porter with cracks about mental instability. With the notable exception of BFair, there has been very little personal abuse on this board since I returned. Most of us are perfectly happy to keep it that way.

What makes you think he could bait me? I haven't had a flame or a bad word to say about anybody in two years. I haven't been in any pissing contests, no arguments, no disagreements, I just pop in every now and again to speak my mind and I'm done.

My world has changed, my cancer is in remission, I'm having a marvelous life, and nothing that happens on message boards bothers me anymore. There was a time when things weren't so good, and I took my frustrations out on message boards. I don't do that anymore. I apologized profusely for my conduct, and folks were more than welcome to accept it or not. Most did not. While that's a shame, I didn't lose sleep.

I will not forget, however, how people like Garth and Ozzy and Blaine treated me during the toughest struggle of my life, and the things they said to me. I do forgive them, though. But I won't forget.

[Warren Willson]

Originally posted by Jim Porter

Oh goodness, no. You misunderstood. I'm not the record holder either, and never claimed to be. The person who started the record thread was rex. I did take part in the thread, and so did you Warren, along with Papa C. However, Ozzy and Garth were nowhere to be found. I just found it funny that those two guys were trying to decide which among them could take credit for the longest thread, and the answer truly was neither of them. I found humor in that.

*sigh* Point taken. I didn't do the research. Looks like the Aussie (not Ozzy) got it wrong again. Live and learn.

Originally posted by Jim Porter
My world has changed, my cancer is in remission, I'm having a marvelous life, and nothing that happens on message boards bothers me anymore.

Congratulations, on ALL counts. I'm trying to get to the stage where the things people write on message boards don't bother me, but I lose my focus on that when people accuse me of having unnatural relations with koala's and sheep! Resorting to personal abuse is just no decent or reasonable way to conduct a logical debate IMO.

Cheers

[Jim Porter]

Originally posted by Warren Willson
Resorting to personal abuse is just no decent or reasonable way to conduct a logical debate IMO.

After all these years, Warren, why do you still expect a logical debate? Take a step back and look at what Internet messaging has become. Go to other sites with other topics and see the behavior there. It is far more atrocious than anything I've seen on an Internet forum for umpires. That includes Gary McGriff's board, which I'm sorry for Gary has become a zoo.

When given a relatively anonymous platform with no accountability, it is sadly common for people to become quite negative. It's as though some folks feel just fine saying anything that comes into their brains on the 'net, no matter who it might hurt, or what senses of decorum it violates.

Some people are just blowing off steam, getting things off their chest, or escaping from real life dilemmas. Others are compensating for deeper problems rooted in a poor self image, or sheer frustration over feelings of inadequacy or failure. A very few are truly mentally disabled.

So, now I take the Internet with a grain of salt. It is the same feeling I have after a particularly ugly ejection. I don't get upset about it anymore. It doesn't bother me anymore. I just sit back and look at the situation and laugh to myself over the absurdity of grown men getting all red in the face and stomping and swearing over an event in a baseball game. I picture those same men getting just as upset while playing Chutes and Ladders or Candyland, which are games, too.

That's how I look at the 'net now. Ozzy implying I am mentally unstable on a message board is pretty pathetic, and therefore funny.

[Edited by Jim Porter on Jul 23rd, 2003 at 09:59 PM]

[Warren Willson]

Originally posted by Jim Porter

After all these years, Warren, why do you still expect a logical debate? Take a step back and look at what Internet messaging has become.

Why? Because I still have some small measure of faith in my fellow officials. That may appear naive, but I know most of those who have worked with me over the years wouldn't hesitate to go to the wall for me - and I for them.

It never ceases to amaze me that, in an avocation where the members are frequently and repeatedly abused on a personal level for simply doing their job, some members still don't think twice about turning that around on someone else who's been in their exact same position. I guess that's more of a statement on what human nature has become - always look after No.1, even at the expense of stepping on and over a fellow human being much less a fellow official.

Cheers

[chris s]

Originally posted by Warren Willson

Why? Because I still have some small measure of faith in my fellow officials. That may appear naive, but I know most of those who have worked with me over the years wouldn't hesitate to go to the wall for me - and I for them.

It never ceases to amaze me that, in an avocation where the members are frequently and repeatedly abused on a personal level for simply doing their job, some members still don't think twice about turning that around on someone else who's been in their exact same position. I guess that's more of a statement on what human nature has become - always look after No.1, even at the expense of stepping on and over a fellow human being much less a fellow official.

Cheers

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~

Warren, and Jim for that too...These boards hammer on folks...I used too (kinda) BUT...In my own personal experience, I have great arguements with NAMED posters and pissin contests with UNNAMED posters. That one E-mail group we all had a few years back, now that got a bit rough, but it was not public.

Through these boards, I got a brand new mask from Tee, with simple" It's on its way, simply send me a check", JP got his gear ripped, I had happened to just have gotten new legguards, sent him my old , postage paid..... AFTER my personal probs over the last 2 years, human nature has gone to hell....BUT not for all.mine included.GLAD to hear you be ok JP....I got some worrys this past weekend with wife, you bet I cancelled games and pissed off an assignor...OP surgury turned into tumor and a kidney stone....biopsy soon....baseball is nuttin.......

[David B]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Warren Willson
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jim Porter

It never ceases to amaze me that, in an avocation where the members are frequently and repeatedly abused on a personal level for simply doing their job, some members still don't think twice about turning that around on someone else who's been in their exact same position. I guess that's more of a statement on what human nature has become - always look after No.1, even at the expense of stepping on and over a fellow human being much less a fellow official.

Cheers

I think you hit the nail square Warren.

I've always tried to think positive for a fellow official simply because I can remember those days when I was going through the learning curve etc.

I needed some help in those days and fellow officials were glad to help.

I enjoy the boards simply because I am still able to be challenged and thus can further my education about this great game at my own pace.

I think human nature though as it has become worse and we see it in our coaches and in the stands each night, it cannot help but also trickle down into the umpiring ranks.

As you often say *sigh*

Thanks
David

[Edited by David B on Jul 24th, 2003 at 10:32 AM]

[His High Holiness]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jim Porter

What makes you think he could bait me? I haven't had a flame or a bad word to say about anybody in two years. I haven't been in any pissing contests, no arguments, no disagreements, I just pop in every now and again to speak my mind and I'm done.

Jim;

Your above statement was such an outrageous mistatement of the truth that I felt compelled to set the record straight. I found numerous examples of flames and insults from your writings but the one quoted below will suffice. It is from the thread the I started that went over 100 replies which we were just discussing. Here is a direct quote from your post in response to Garth. It was from August of 2002, which on my calendar is less that 1 year ago; not even close to 2 years ago as you claimed.

"Nanny-nanny boo-boo. You're a liar too. You lied and said you had all that history and tradition and rule on your side and you didn't. You lied. Liar, liar, liar.

See how much fun it can be when the children can't get past name-calling? Talking about being disappointed, Garth, your inability to be civil, respectful, or even adult disappoints me. The Garth I used to know has been replaced with an eight-year-old.

Take your Tonka toys and go home. My mommy won't let me play at your house anymore. She's says you're a bad influence."

Now Jim, are you going to tell us that you were trying to compliment Garth and the above is not an insult.

Furthermore, you make numerous posts that drip with sarcasm and imply others or stupid or lying, just as with the post that started this go-round. But, oh no, in your twisted mind, this is not insulting. I made a post that lightheartedly quoted Garth as saying that I had the longest thread. Garth said that his evidence was only anecdotal and not final. He even predicted that some cretin would come along and make a big issue of finding the longest post. That turned out to be a true statement. For along came an escaped maniac from the asylum to prove him wrong.

Despite your protestations to the contrary, I don't see any difference in the "new" Jim.

Oh, and by the way, I know that you ahave extensively deleted your posts from the past. I am sure that you will do another edit, so that the evidence is erased.

Finally, this post was not meant to be complimentary but I have never claimed or have even tried to be nice. Unlike some people with a mental history, I have never claimed to be Jesus Christ or one of his apostles. Someone else dubbed me "His High Holiness", but that's another story.

Peter

[Edited by His High Holiness on Jul 25th, 2003 at 09:20 AM]

[Jim Porter]

Originally posted by His High Holiness
Here is a direct quote from your post in response to Garth.

Yeah, a quote in direct response to Garth flaming me and calling me a liar. I don't see my post as flaming anyone, or calling anyone names. It is obviously mimicking the unprovoked attack that Garth made on me. I stuck to the topic of the thread until Garth made it personal, and then I tried to defuse the situation by pointing out Garth's obvious lack of maturity and elementary school conduct.

You're right that it probably wasn't the best choice. I should've just ignored Garth's unprovoked and off-topic attack on me. I should've just forgiven his rude name-calling and lack of decorum. Garth was a friend at one time, so I guess that past relationship led me to make a poor choice and respond as I did. I've learned - Garth ain't a friend. It won't happen again.

[Jim Porter]

Originally posted by His High Holiness
Furthermore, you make numerous posts that drip with sarcasm and imply others or stupid or lying, just as with the post that started this go-round. But, oh no, in your twisted mind, this is not insulting.

The sarcasm I cannot deny. But if you read something where I imply people are stupid or lying, then the trouble is in your translator. For example, in my post where I pointed out that neither Garth nor you were the creators of the longest thread on this forum, I wasn't at all implying you guys were lying. I don't even believe you were lying. I, in fact, believe the two of you to be so self-absorbed that you neither knew nor cared that someone else entirely was responsible for the honor.

Now, I might not be running around flaming or name-calling or using these message boards to blow off steam. However, that doesn't mean I like you or Garth, and it doesn't mean I'm Mr. Nice Guy. I still think you're one of the biggest jerks I've ever met on the Internet, and Garth one of the biggest hypocrites. I just don't get upset about it anymore.

[His High Holiness]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jim Porter

Now, I might not be running around flaming or name-calling or using these message boards to blow off steam. However, that doesn't mean I like you or Garth, and it doesn't mean I'm Mr. Nice Guy. I still think you're one of the biggest jerks I've ever met on the Internet, ... I just don't get upset about it anymore.

Jim;

I agree that I am one the biggest jerks on the internet. I have always liked being number one.

Furthermore, this is a great lead-in to an 11 part series which I am about to upload for publishing to the subscription part to this site. It discusses how and why an umpire should be an a$$hole on the field.

Thanks for providing the opportunity for this promo for my article.

Peter

[brian43]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by His High Holiness

Furthermore, this is a great lead-in to an 11 part series which I am about to upload for publishing to the subscription part to this site. It discusses how and why an umpire should be an a$$hole on the field.

dumbest thing i have ever read. please upload that so no one reads it and you feel like an *******...like you apparently are on the field.

[Warren Willson]

Originally posted by Jim Porter
For example, in my post where I pointed out that neither Garth nor you were the creators of the longest thread on this forum, I wasn't at all implying you guys were lying. I don't even believe you were lying. I, in fact, believe the two of you to be so self-absorbed that you neither knew nor cared that someone else entirely was responsible for the honor.

Now, I might not be running around flaming or name-calling or using these message boards to blow off steam. However, that doesn't mean I like you or Garth, and it doesn't mean I'm Mr. Nice Guy. I still think you're one of the biggest jerks I've ever met on the Internet, and Garth one of the biggest hypocrites. I just don't get upset about it anymore.

I have no wish to prolong this "discussion", which is why I didn't challenge the "facts" when you first posted your now deleted "correction" over who had the longest thread. I don't want to appear to be taking sides on the matter either. The problem is, Jim, that you have misinterpreted the "facts".

1. Peter Osborne (aka HHH) didn't claim to have the longest thread, only that a thread he initiated went to 7 pages and 100 posts. That post challenged my off-handed comment about "a record 5th page". He said that at that time Garth claimed THAT was a record, but he didn't claim that "honor" for himself. In fact he pointed out that he had only posted once in that thread, after the initiating post.

2. Garth didn't claim to have the longest thread either! He said he "believed" that "honor" belonged to Peter. He clarified that his belief was only anecdotal and not based in fact. He clearly didn't want to end up in a silly argument about who had the longest thread.

So neither of those posters actually claimed they had the longest thread, or knew for a fact who did. That was YOUR construction on the original posts. Your now deleted post may have had a humorous aspect to it, but my recollection is that it was also liberally laced with "needling" and sarcastic remarks aimed at Peter and Garth.

Now I don't know Peter Osborne at all well, much less understand his motivation for writing particular things on discussion boards like this, but I certainly don't believe he is the sort to publicly lay claim to feats that can easily be disproved. He's not that silly. On the contrary, he's usually much cleverer than many give him credit for.

I DO feel that I know Garth Benham a fair bit better. You and I, Carl Childress and Garth, all shared a good relationship at one time. I know that Garth spoke up in private against sanctioning you on the UmpiresTalk e-mail listserv that we co-moderated, when your illness was at its peak and people who didn't understand what you were going through were demanding your ejection from the community. From what I know of Garth he is NOT an unusually self-absorbed person. Neither is he hypocritical, in my experience.

You have a history with Peter (Ozzy) Osborne, Garth and Blaine Gallant. You have admitted that. I believe your history has colored your view here. Please let us have an end to the public airing of old, private dirty laundry. With very few exceptions, the posts have been positive and constructive since I returned. I for one would prefer things continued in that vein.

[Jim Porter]

Ah, Warren, you're brilliant. You haven't changed. Out of one side of your mouth, you say you don't want to prolong the discussion or take sides. You then use 1000 words prolonging the discussion and taking sides. How ridiculous.

I didn't delete my post. The admin of this site did. If you have a problem with that, take it up with him, or take it up with the person who complained. However, needling people over something so inocuous as creator of the longest thread, versus questioning someone's mental stability, aren't even in the same league. You vehemently defend one side, but remain silent about the other. Anyone who thinks I deserve to have my mental stability questioned considering what I've been through in my life, versus needling a couple of former adversaries about who holds title to creator of the longest thread, are sadly misguided in life. You seem outraged about one, but not the other. I'd call you a fair weather friend, and I'd probably be right.

You talk about how much better this forum has become. Well, maybe it's better for you because the comments are no longer directed Down Under. However, the tone of this board hasn't changed one iota. Newcomers are treated quite poorly by some regulars here. They are called names and ridiculed. I know because I've personally complained about some of those posts, and the admin removed them. Garth continues to hold his grudge against me, and has continued to make references to me being a "liar" and how he'll never read another post of mine (a lie, actually, because he does read them and complain about them to the admin of this site.)

So, I see how you are Warren. As long as the comments aren't directed at you, the tone of this board has improved. Who cares about the newcomers to this board, or to some of the others who haven't been around for years, or even me? You're happy as long as it isn't about you. If you claim that you didn't notice, then you're blind to it.

Now, I'm not going away. I plan to take on a more active role on this forum. You better learn to deal with me, or go away again. I frankly don't care what you do.