NLCS blown base award

[Rich Ives]

8.01(e) does not apply because the jab step and jump steps are considered to be moves from the rubber.

IOW because they are from the rubber the bit about becoming an infielder because he stepped off doesn't apply because he's still considered on.

The ruling about the jab step is in writing in the MLBUM. The jump step is considered as being in the same category by interpretation.

[Lapopez]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

8.01(e) does not apply because the jab step and jump steps are considered to be moves from the rubber.

IOW because they are from the rubber the bit about becoming an infielder because he stepped off doesn't apply because he's still considered on.

The ruling about the jab step is in writing in the MLBUM. The jump step is considered as being in the same category by interpretation.

I'm sorry, I cannot speak to what you are saying without reading the text of the MLBUM, for which I have been tearing up my room looking for. Would you mind quoting the pertinent section?

ETA: I cannot believe I can't find my MLBUM. I'm so frustrated right now. Sorry.

[Lapopez]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

8.01(e) does not apply because the jab step and jump steps are considered to be moves from the rubber.

IOW because they are from the rubber the bit about becoming an infielder because he stepped off doesn't apply because he's still considered on.

The ruling about the jab step is in writing in the MLBUM. The jump step is considered as being in the same category by interpretation.

[Sorry, I went to CDP in July and my MLBUM was still in my suitcase!]

I cannot find any such language, Rich. I found this though, "It is legal for a right-handed pitcher to begin a pick-off move to first base by moving his pivot foot in the direction of third base provided that he makes a legal step toward first base with the non-pivot foot before throwing there and provided that the move is continuous and without interruption. A pitcher who makes such a pick-off is considered to be in contact with the rubber when he makes his throw to first base." (Bold emphasis is original to citation.)

Wow! Bob's quote was from 1999. When did the MLBUM become publicly available? He sure was ahead of his time.

[JJ]

It was a jump turn.

Or not.

JJ

[Lapopez]

Originally Posted by JJ

It was a jump turn.

Or not.

JJ

Let me catch you up in the thread. No one is disputing that Cain executed a jump step anymore. (I never did.)

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by Lapopez

I cannot find any such language, Rich.

You quote it then deny it. OMG! 2012 MLBUM Chapter/Section/Rule 53 Page 67 (The bold is theirs, the underscored part you need to read slowly - very slowly - and carefully)

(i) It is legal for a right-handed pitcher to begin a pick-off move to first base by first moving his pivot foot in the direction of third base provided that he makes a legal step toward first base with the non-pivot foot before throwing there and provided that the move is continuous and without interruption. A pitcher who makes such a pick-off move is considered to be in contact with the rubber when he makes his throw to first base.

[Lapopez]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

You quote it then deny it. OMG! 2012 MLBUM Chapter/Section/Rule 53 Page 67 (The bold is theirs, the underscored part you need to read slowly - very slowly - and carefully)

(i) It is legal for a right-handed pitcher to begin a pick-off move to first base by first moving his pivot foot in the direction of third base provided that he makes a legal step toward first base with the non-pivot foot before throwing there and provided that the move is continuous and without interruption. A pitcher who makes such a pick-off move is considered to be in contact with the rubber when he makes his throw to first base.

"Such a pick-off move" = "pick-off move to first base by first moving his pivot foot in the direction of third base"

That's not what Cain did. Cain stepped back.

(As far as what you addressed to Carl, I'll let Carl respond to the selective sentences you chose from my dissertation that you did not understand as to how they fit into the rest of the argument.)

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by Lapopez

"Such a pick-off move" = "pick-off move to first base by first moving his pivot foot in the direction of third base"

That's not what Cain did.

(As far as what you addressed to Carl, I'll let Carl respond to the selective sentences you chose from my dissertation that you did not understand how they fit into the rest of the argument.)

For deity's sake - the meaning is that it's a move from the rubber and that a jump turn is also a move from the rubber. If they're from the rubber then it couldn't be considered a disengagement. 8.01(e) defines what you consider the pitcher IF he legally disengages as described in 8.01 a and b - not as a separate thing.

The quotes I copied are the basis of your argument. If they are not true the rest is meaningless.

[Lapopez]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

For deity's sake - the meaning is that it's a move from the rubber and that a jump turn is also a move from the rubber.

Not a jump turn in which the pitcher steps back.

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

The quotes I copied are the basis of your argument. If they are not true the rest is meaningless.

Oh, they're true. Try to understand them in the context of the rest of the argument. After you've done that, please show me where my logic is faulty.

[Lapopez]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

8.01(e) defines what you consider the pitcher IF he legally disengages (emphasis added) as described in 8.01 a and b - not as a separate thing.

This is patently FALSE! You clearly don't understand my dissertation. May I direct you to the chapter "Disengagement" for the discussion of this red herring.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Lapopez

That's not what Cain did. Cain stepped back

Good grief. Make up your mind, will you? You can't say it's a jump turn and also say he stepped back. They are diametrically opposite conclusions.

For the record, please look again at the video ... exactly what direction did his pivot foot go? It gains significant ground toward third base. Yes - it moves slightly back as well, but it still fits within the description you quoted (and simultaneously said you couldn't find... Meh Huh?)

[Lapopez]

Practically, you call what you see.

[You can stop there, unless you're interested in a dissertation.]

From the beginning, I've held the umpires blameless. Maven straight out ASSUMES they saw the step back and ruled (!) it a jump turn (where do you stand on this now, babe?). I don't subscribe to UES's slippery slope business either. Carl says he never sees the Cain move, but Carl regularly does a little better baseball than I do. As in 1999, I still see the Cain move often. The frequency diminishes as the age and skill level increases. The older boys are losing precious fractions of a second stepping back and turning (Cain) rather than just turning (MLBUM). From a practical standpoint, if I couldn't see the step back, I'll rule as the MLB umpires did in the Cain play. You can't call what you don't see. To the offensive coach, "I'm sorry Skip, he was so quick, I didn't see the step back. Please go back to your dugout now as I really don't want to run you for something I missed."