Overturned Balk

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by zm1283

Can you show me where his foot was still on the rubber while he was throwing to first?

His foot wasn't on the rubber, I agree with you there.

But when a pitcher executes a jab-step (at least with my understanding of what the jab-step entails), by authoritative interpretation it is considered a move while in-contact with the rubber, even though the pivot foot does disengage prior to the throw. A throw into DBT after a jab-step is a one-base award, and a failure to throw to first after executing a jab-step move is considered a balk under 8.05(b).

This pitcher's move to first looked exactly like a jab-step to me. The only difference was that he first faked a throw to third. I'm just trying to understand why a feint to first on a jab-step is a balk, but a feint to first that looks exactly like a jab-step is not a balk if there's an intermediate fake to third.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by Manny A

His foot wasn't on the rubber, I agree with you there.

But when a pitcher executes a jab-step (at least with my understanding of what the jab-step entails), by authoritative interpretation it is considered a move while in-contact with the rubber, even though the pivot foot does disengage prior to the throw. A throw into DBT after a jab-step is a one-base award, and a failure to throw to first after executing a jab-step move is considered a balk under 8.05(b).

This pitcher's move to first looked exactly like a jab-step to me. The only difference was that he first faked a throw to third. I'm just trying to understand why a feint to first on a jab-step is a balk, but a feint to first that looks exactly like a jab-step is not a balk if there's an intermediate fake to third.

Because it's not possible to jab step after you've feinted to another base. It's not a jab step anymore.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Manny A

His foot wasn't on the rubber, I agree with you there.

But when a pitcher executes a jab-step (at least with my understanding of what the jab-step entails), by authoritative interpretation it is considered a move while in-contact with the rubber, even though the pivot foot does disengage prior to the throw. A throw into DBT after a jab-step is a one-base award, and a failure to throw to first after executing a jab-step move is considered a balk under 8.05(b).

This pitcher's move to first looked exactly like a jab-step to me. The only difference was that he first faked a throw to third. I'm just trying to understand why a feint to first on a jab-step is a balk, but a feint to first that looks exactly like a jab-step is not a balk if there's an intermediate fake to third.

I see what you're saying, but the consequence of a jab-step is disengaging... yes, the throw that comes (or doesn't) is considered as being from the rubber ... but that doesn't imply that when you're done, you are still, somehow, engaged with the rubber. Are you really thinking that to throw to first after a jab-step to third, the pitcher has to re-disengage his foot? That seems rather odd.

[SAump]

Manny, search engine results from another thread

Baseball Discussion Group - 1st - 3rd pickoff Q

Excellent point on breaking contact before throw to 1st that is not required on spin move to 2nd. The following comment supports our viewpoint on the balk, in regards to both distance and direction requirements.

BRD #362. PBUC Staff: During the step to third, the pitcher must leave the pitcher's plate. If he does not, and turns to step towards first, that is a balk.

It's hard to find video of legal 3rd to 1st moves that never work, except for Wakefield's balk video. However, Granderson and Beltran were both caught in legal 3rd to 1st moves while attempting to steal 2nd. Both pitchers clearly leave the pitcher' plate prior to wheeling toward 1st base, feinting there, and throwing to 2nd ahead of the the runner.

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by SAump

Manny, search engine results from another thread

Baseball Discussion Group - 1st - 3rd pickoff Q

Excellent point on breaking contact before throw to 1st that is not required on spin move to 2nd. The following comment supports our viewpoint on the balk, in regards to both distance and direction requirements.

BRD #362. PBUC Staff: During the step to third, the pitcher must leave the pitcher's plate. If he does not, and turns to step towards first, that is a balk.

It's hard to find video of legal 3rd to 1st moves that never work, except for Wakefield's balk video. However, Granderson and Beltran were both caught in legal 3rd to 1st moves while attempting to steal 2nd. Both pitchers clearly leave the pitcher' plate prior to wheeling toward 1st base, feinting there, and throwing to 2nd ahead of the the runner.

And in the video pertaining to this thread, the pitcher clearly steps towards thirds, steps off the plate, wheels and steps and throws to first.