INT on a foul ball

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

(And tbh... this was OBSTRUCTION if you think about it... at least until the ball dropped foul)

I suppose you could make a case for protecting F3, but it's a weak case. F2 had a better play on the ball.

Here's one of several errors made by the crew: if U1 calls R1 out for INT, why is he allowing play to develop? Why are we throwing the ball across the diamond? Isn't it DEAD on INT?

[ozzy6900]

I would have never ruled that F3 had an opportunity on this play. F1 & F2 are right there and one of them would be protected.

[UmpTTS43]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

I would have never ruled that F3 had an opportunity on this play. F1 & F2 are right there and one of them would be protected.

Obviously because it ended up being a routine catch.

F2 is the last fielder protected. I believe the correct call was made. I would have ruled INT as well.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by UmpTTS43

Obviously because it ended up being a routine catch.

F2 is the last fielder protected. I believe the correct call was made. I would have ruled INT as well.

Um ... based on your OWN WORDS, calling int would be wrong. If you protected F2 - then the collision between runner and F3 is obstruction, not interference. (PS - Mr. Rolleyes... routine or not has nothing to do with this - if you really think it does, please ask this at your next clinic. What matters is - which fielder does the UMPIRE think is going to make the play? That fielder is protected, and no one else.)

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

I would have never ruled that F3 had an opportunity on this play. F1 & F2 are right there and one of them would be protected.

I dunno, ozzy. F2 definitely had the harder play (and the fact that he didn't make it confirms that) caused by the fact that F3 couldn't get to the ball. I stopped the video the moment F3 contacted R1, and at that moment, all three fielders were about equidistant from the point where the ball fell. So I don't think it's a stretch to say that F3 would have called F2 (and F1, for that matter) off to make the catch had R1 not hindered him.

This was definitely a dumb move by R1. He's lollygagging back to first base while holding his arm up in the air. Interference should have been called right then and there, IMHO.

Originally Posted by mbyron

Here's one of several errors made by the crew: if U1 calls R1 out for INT, why is he allowing play to develop? Why are we throwing the ball across the diamond? Isn't it DEAD on INT?

I'm not so sure U1 made that call right away. It was only after the crew got together to discuss it did they make that determination.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Manny A

I'm not so sure U1 made that call right away. It was only after the crew got together to discuss it did they make that determination.

He made the int call immediately (not seen in this video, but seen on others) - on this particular video, however, at about 12-13 seconds you can see he's already got a fist in the air before the ball is thrown to first.

In the other video, you can see him put his arm in the air at the point where they collide (looks more like and IFF signal to me) and he points several times at the runner, long before the ball came down.

[UmpTTS43]

Originally Posted by mbyron

I suppose you could make a case for protecting F3, but it's a weak case. F2 had a better play on the ball.

Here's one of several errors made by the crew: if U1 calls R1 out for INT, why is he allowing play to develop? Why are we throwing the ball across the diamond? Isn't it DEAD on INT?

We also have an IFF situation. We have to keep it live until we know the status of the ball.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by UmpTTS43

We also have an IFF situation. We have to keep it live until we know the status of the ball.

Egads ... two in the same thread. NO. Interference is a dead ball. The ball's status is DEAD.

[UmpTTS43]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Um ... based on your OWN WORDS, calling int would be wrong. If you protected F2 - then the collision between runner and F3 is obstruction, not interference. (PS - Mr. Rolleyes... routine or not has nothing to do with this - if you really think it does, please ask this at your next clinic. What matters is - which fielder does the UMPIRE think is going to make the play? That fielder is protected, and no one else.)

I don't know how you infer that. I would have protected F3 hence the INT.

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Egads ... two in the same thread. NO. Interference is a dead ball. The ball's status is DEAD.

A] not all INT results in an immediate dead ball B] you keep the ball live until the status is determined for the IFF. If you kill it right away you may deprive the defense from completing the IFF ie catch, touching it fair. If the ball is fair, you would have two outs, if the ball is foul, you have one out and batter back up to bat.

Same is true for type A OBS on the batter runner. If the ball is a fly ball or fair/foul status is in question you keep it live until the play is over.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by UmpTTS43

I don't know how you infer that. I would have protected F3 hence the INT.

My bad... I inferred that you meant F2 when you typed F2. Idiot.

A] not all INT results in a dead ball B] you keep the ball live until the status is determined for the IFF. If you kill it right away you may deprive the defense from completing the IFF ie catch, touching it fair. If the ball is fair, you would have two outs, if the ball is foul, you have one out and batter back up to bat.

Find a clinic. All I can say.

[MD Longhorn]

There seem to be a couple advocating protecting F3. I ask if you would have done so if the batter had run over F2 on this play. I also ask for some justification for protecting F3 given that the ball came within about an inch of actually being caught ... by F2.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

There seem to be a couple advocating protecting F3. I ask if you would have done so if the batter had run over F2 on this play. I also ask for some justification for protecting F3 given that the ball came within about an inch of actually being caught ... by F2.

The batted ball was more than halfway up the first base line. F2 is running to make what everyone should agree is a very difficult catch for F2 to make, and that's on a ball going away from him.

It doesn't matter that F2 came within an inch of catching the ball. That's not necessarily the criteria to decide who to protect. If R1 hadn't hindered F3, chances are pretty good that he not only would have been just as close to the ball as F2 ended up being, he would have had a much easier play.

And even if the batter had run over F2, that wouldn't have mattered if I had judged F3 was protected AND killed play the moment R1 hindered him.

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

There seem to be a couple advocating protecting F3. I ask if you would have done so if the batter had run over F2 on this play.
(snip).

You would have to determine the MLB ruling on which takes precedence, - although OBS on the BR before reaching first is an immediate dead ball, there are instances where the BR can still be out (such as a caught fly ball) - but that didn't happen here... so

Snip
I also ask for some justification for protecting F3 given that the ball came within about an inch of actually being caught ... by F2

Because as I see it, F3 would have caught the ball if R1 had not interfered

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

My bad... I inferred that you meant F2 when you typed F2. Idiot.

Find a clinic. All I can say.

Mike, I may still be an idiot, but I have no problem with F3 being judged to be making the play - but we are certainly on the same page regarding the ball not being in play as soon as the INT call is made - and the fact that U1's mechanic didn't make sense with the end result of the play...

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by HugoTafurst

Mike, I may still be an idiot, but I have no problem with F3 being judged to be making the play - but we are certainly on the same page regarding the ball not being in play as soon as the INT call is made - and the fact that U1's mechanic didn't make sense with the end result of the play...

I called him that because he said,

"F2 is the last fielder protected. I believe the correct call was made."

And then when I told him that if F2 was the protected fielder then the correct call was NOT made, he said, "I don't know how you infer that."

Um ... I "inferred" that he was protecting F2 because he TYPED that he was protecting F2.

You, Hugo, are not an idiot for thinking F3 was the protected fielder. I disagree, but you're not an idiot.